Post by Brian on Feb 12, 2014 3:00:34 GMT -5
11/10/07 at 05:48 PM
Maria
I was looking closely at this photo of the room where the murders occurred and when I enlarged it twice I noticed two things that surprised me. I can't absolutely say for certain that what I think these two things look like they are to me are indeed what they are but they look very much like it to me. One is what appears to be two people in the mirror on the dresser. In the top right corner there appears to be the face of a woman but the person lower down than her looks like the face of an elderly man with a white beard. The only person I can think of is Sam Hill, the elderly man who led the people on the tours of the Lawson house. The second thing is what appears to be a small calender but when blown up looks to me like a Christmas card with a Santa Claus on it and he has one of his hands raised up like he's waving. You have to really look hard and enlarge it to twice it's size to see and recognize it. And even then some of you may see something different than I do and some of you may say you can't make out what it is at all. And that will be okay. I'm just saying what it looks like to me. I almost forgot but the card with what looks like Santa Clause to me is the top card taped to the wall to the right of the clock on the mantel. It appears to have some sort of tassel hanging down from it on the left side of the card.
Maria
11/12/07 at 01:07 PM
Angel71242
Yeah, I see what you're seeing. It looks like Santa to me too"! Weird" Maybe that was part of their Christmas decorations!
And I see what you see in the mirror too - could be matrixing - but yes, it does look like two people.
Angel71242
11/12/07 at 08:36 PM
LuvMyDog
Hi Everyone.....I was looking at the photo and I too see what appears to be a man with a white beard in the mirror, but I don't see a woman? And I can't tell if it was a Christmas card or not, but indeed it does look like it has 2 tassels hanging on it. Being that close to Christmas, I'm sure it was a Christmas Card. What amazes me most about the photo is the large pool of blood in front of the fireplace. I know that Maria was shot there, but it seems like an awful lot of blood for one person. How many times did Charlie shoot her? I have never seen so much blood for one person at a murder scene!
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 08:39 PM
Maria
I've no idea if she was shot more than once. Some of the blood might have been Fannie's but I don't know that for sure, just guessing. But thanks for pointing that out because I hadn't noticed how much there was until you did. And you're right, it's a heck of a lot of blood, especially for one person.
Maria
11/12/07 at 08:46 PM
LuvMyDog
I just wonder if Charlie would have dragged Fannie that far? I don't think so, because it would have given Maria a mirror of opportunity to react to the situation. But the blood in front of the fireplace is what bothers me.......it just too much for one person, unless he opened fire on her and shot her more than once. Just my opinion.
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 08:54 PM
Maria
Most of the blood is closest to the fireplace. It's very thick there. I've never been to a scene where a person has been shot so I've no idea how much a person bleeds. She was a large girl, but still...
Maria
11/12/07 at 09:57 PM
NascarLover
That picture really shook me up. It is so gruesome. I agree, it's an awful lot of blood for one person.
T.C. bowman
NascarLover
11/12/07 at 10:50 PM
LuvMyDog
I have been reading several articles on gunshot ballistics, and from what I've read it seems that it depends on how far the victim was from the actual firing of the "shotgun/rifle". There could be substantial damage to the victim if the firing was at close range. Which I believe had to be the case, because the house was very small, and not much distance from the door to the fireplace. However, I still haven't found a plausible explanation as to why there was so much blood from Maria's standpoint.
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 11:18 PM
Maria
Maybe Charlie hit a main artery? What they call a gusher. Would that have caused it?
Maria
11/13/07 at 07:57 AM
Maria
It's been said repeatedly that there were no Christmas decorations in the Lawson home that year. But if that was a Christmas card on the wall, and I believe that's what it was, then might there not have been other decorations as well. Some of the news paper accounts said there were no Christmas decorations while one said there was. Ruby Savage, one of Marie's best friends told us that she and Marie went to the woods around the Lawsons home two days before Christmas to gather greenery and red berries to take home and decorate with. She said she herself gathered up some but couldn't remember if Marie did or not. Most people decorate their mantels with greenery and berries but it's obvious there were no decorations greenery or other wise on the mantel above the Lawson's fireplace.
Maria
11/13/07 at 09:46 AM
Angel71242
I have to believe they had a few decorations! It's too sad to thing otherwise (with all those children)! part about Marie and Ruby gathering greenery and berries.
As for the amount of blood - I have read many many true crime novels and the amount of blood a person can bleed can be quite amazing. I believe I've read that the body contains around 6 quarts of blood. I just don't find it hard to believe that all that blood is Marie's. It's all contained right there in one spot so yes it would look like a lot.
Angel71242
11/13/07 at 09:53 AM
Maria
Good point there Angel. Thanks. I've heard people say that before about how much blood there was when they saw where someone had been shot or stabbed. They were always amazed at how much there was. I just hadn't noticed that until Luvmydog pointed it out though.
Maria
11/13/07 at 02:49 PM
Michael818
Even an average adult has at least 5 gallons of blood. As close as Charlie had to be, with a shotgun, it would have done tremendous damage to Marie's chest. There would have been a huge entry wound, and a gigantic exit wound. I'm sure he did hit an artery, possibly even the heart itself. But, maybe James was at his sister's side, and some blood is his too. Or, if there was much slope to the floor, Fannie's blood may have run and mingled with Marie's. You were in there, Maria. Just how big was that room? From the looks of the pictures, it just doesn't seem that wide to me. But, never having seen it, I just don't know.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/13/07 at 02:54 PM
Maria
If memory serves me well it seemed an average size room but when you factor in all in the big pieces of furniture in that room it makes for much less space size wise.
Maria
11/13/07 at 07:49 PM
LuvMyDog
Another point about the photo that is interesting to me is the "run" of blood from the large pool in front of the fireplace. Especially the one in the middle. It's almost as though the floor is on a downward slant, and maybe it was. I just found this a little odd that the blood would carry that far.
LuvMyDog
11/13/07 at 08:22 PM
Maria
Not all of that was blood. Some of it I've been told was the result of losing control of her bladder if you get my drift. I'm trying not to be vulgar here.
Maria
11/13/07 at 08:36 PM
LuvMyDog
Jeez.....sorry Maria, didn't mean to put you in such a bad position here. Thanks for the info though, it sure makes sense to me now!
LuvMyDog
11/14/07 at 10:45 AM
Angel71242
As old as that cabin was, I bet the floor did have a slant to it.
Angel71242
11/14/07 at 11:35 AM
Maria
The house was well over 100 years old when Charlie bought it. And we all know how wood warps over time. So a slant is definitely doable.
Maria
11/14/07 AT 05:43 PM
LuvMyDog
Michael stated in post#13, that exit wounds are much larger than the entry wound. Which would explain that there would be far more blood after the bullet passes through. My point and question is this, if Marie was shot as close as we believe her to have been and she had been standing in front of the fireplace, where is the blood spatter. I would think that there would have been an abundant amount of blood on the front of the fireplace, but don't see any. Is it possible that she was on her knees or possibly closer to the floor when shot? There just seems to be an awful lot of white on that fireplace for not one drop of blood to have spattered on it or the white cloth on the mantel. It would also explain why so much blood was on the floor. I remember reading somewhere here that Marie was a fairly tall young lady, so I would think this would line her up closer to the top of the mantel?
LuvMyDog
11/14/07 at 05:53 PM
Michael818
You know, I'd never really thought about it, but Luvmydog seems to have a point here. It really looks like Marie would have HAD to be down on her knees, or even on the floor. Maybe she fell in struggling with Charlie (if she did struggle with him), or tripped trying to get away. If she'd been standing, there would have HAD to be blood and flesh spatter on the wall or fireboard!
Michael R.
Michael818
11/14/07 at 06:06 PM
Maria
I hate to say this guys, but it's got me stumped too. I asked where the blood splatter was some time ago but never heard from anyone who could explain it.
Maria
11/15/07 at 09:46 AM
LuvMyDog
Yes, I agree also. Seems like there would HAVE to be blood splattered on the wall!! Michael's theory seems most likely, she either fell in a struggle or tripped trying to either get away or lunging for some kind of weapon. Good eye
LuvMyDog!!
11/15/07 at 09:57 AM
Maria
I've been thinking about this blood splatter thing. Blood splatter occurs more often in killings involving knives and blunt instruments to the head when the knife is inserted then yanked out over and over. Not usually in gun shot killings. The bullet enters then exits. Bleeding occurs. When Marie was shot with a shotgun she would have fallen to the floor immediately and bled there. I may very well be wrong as I am not a forensic or blood splatter expert. I've just watched CSI probably too much.
Maria
11/15/07 at 10:21 AM
Angel71242
From WCBC:
Blood was splattered over the walls and furniture. Death and its reminders were every where.
Even though it says this in the book, like LuvMyDog -I don't see any blood on the walls or furniture in the picture. But how good were cameras in 1929?? Maybe there are small droplets and the camera quality just isn't good enough to pick them up?
Angel71242
11/15/07 at 10:27 AM
Maria
News reporters cameras would have picked blood splatter up I'm certain.
Maria
11/15/07 at 10:34 AM
Angel71242
That makes sense. A reporters camera would probably be higher quality than the average Joe's camera. Another thing, I don't remember any reports of blood splatter on the front porch area from Fannie getting shot. Wonder why?
Angel71242
11/15/07 at 10:38 AM
Maria
Good question Angel. If there had been blood splatter from Marie being shot there would have been splatter from Fannie being shot. Right? Wrong? Anyone?
Maria
11/15/07 at 03:59 PM
Michael818
Perhaps the door was open, and the blood hit the porch and floor when Fannie was shot? The impact of a shotgun blast at that close range would have still left a spatter. I remember a prominent suicide who shot himself in the mouth with a shotgun. His blood and brain matter were still on the walls and ceiling three days later when his nephew and I went in the house to gather things for the man's sister (she just didn't want to go in there yet). My point being, if it spattered all the way to the ceiling with him, it would have spattered the wall with Marie. Another bothersome detail. Where is the hole in the wall, or the holes? The buckshot should have been embedded in the wall if she were standing, and in the fireplace or floor if she were down! Where is it?
Actually, now that I think about it, I think there had been an effort to clean some, but the stains remained.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/15/07 at 05:31 PM
LuvMyDog
Where exactly was Fannie shot? Was she shot in the snow? If she was then I'm sure most of the blood was washed away with the snow. I have never seen a detailed picture of the porch, so I couldn't say. But there is something about Marie, and the fireplace that is totally off. I thought it from the first time I saw it. And Michael, that is a great point about the gunfire, if it did indeed exit Marie instead of lodging in her tissue, (which happens sometimes too), then it should definitely be an obvious clue in the fireplace! Too bad all of us weren't there to collect the forensics! With Sherlock, (Maria) heading the gang, you know we would have solved how it happened" It would have just left the "why", but I think we have a finger on that one.
LuvMyDog
11/15/07 at 06:07 PM
Maria
Some of the blood was said to have been scooped up, placed in a bucket, then taken outside and buried. I don't know whether this photo was taken before or after some of the blood had been removed. As for where Fannie was shot I've always heard she was shot on the front porch, not in the yard. I don't know how much it snowed that day but there was blood leading up to the tobacco barn which led someone there where they then discovered the bodies of Carrie and Maybell. That means that if Fannie had been shot in the yard her blood would not have been washed away.
Maria
11/15/07 at 07:22 PM
NascarLover
Why did they bury the blood and did they bury the bucket as well?
T.C. Bowman
NascarLover
11/15/07 at 08:03 PM
LuvMyDog
I wonder why they would bury a bucket with blood in it? I just find this odd, but people back then did things differently than they do today. I'm sure they had their reasons.
LuvMyDog
11/15/07 at 08:04 PM
Maria
Hi Tim,
I heard that they buried the bucket with the blood in it somewhere in the woods behind the house. I have no idea "why" they buried it. Maybe something symbolic? Or perhaps they didn't want animals messing with it. I don't know. Looks like they would have just thrown it down the hole in the outhouse.
Maria
11/15/07 at 11:25 PM
LuvMyDog
Wow! I never thought about what happened to the blood during an investigation. That is really interesting what
they did back then, I guess now-a-days they take samples and then clean up the mess.
LuvMyDog
11/16/07 at 07:39 AM
Maria
They would also test the DNA. But if we're shocked about how much blood is showing on the floor in that picture, imagine how much was actually there if that photo was taken AFTER that man scooped up a bucket full of it. Actually, it wasn't a bucket, it was a metal wash tub. And from all I have heard and put together, the blood was scooped up that afternoon after the examination by Doctors Helsabeck and Spotswood Taylor was completed and the bodies removed. If that is correct, then that photo was definitely taken after the blood had been scooped up. Hillary Hampton was said to be the one who scooped it up and buried it. His wife is still living so perhaps she can verify or deny that claim as well as the claim that she was the one who provided the sheets for the victims to be covered with. If she says that yes it was her husband who scooped up the blood and buried it then perhaps she can tell us exactly where that wash tub of blood is buried.
Maria
11/16/07 at 09:38 AM
Angel71242
Oh my....wouldn't that be something!!
And she's still alive! She's got to be 90+!!
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 09:41 AM
Maria
She's 98 and though in failing physical health her mind is still clear and sharp.
Maria
11/16/07 at 09:42 AM
Angel71242
Awesome!!
Unfortunately even if she knows where the "bucket of blood" is buried, its on that private property right?
But maybe it won't be private forever! Maybe one day they will sell and if I win the lottery then I can buy it!!
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 09:46 AM
Maria
Dream on McDuff.
Maria
11/16/07 at 10:09 AM
Angel71242
Just curious - do you know if they buried the sheets that were used to cover the bodies too? Or did they just throw them away? They must have gotten a lot of blood on them.
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 10:17 AM
Maria
That's a great question Angel and the answer is: I don't know but I seriously doubt they were buried. Hillary Hampton's wife Sadie Hampton is the one who provided the sheets that were used to cover the bodies as they were brought out of the house, carried down the hill and placed in the waiting ambulances. Based on that I would say the bodies were carried on to the funeral home in Walnut Cove first and then on down to Madison with the sheets still covering the bodies. So it's possible the funeral home disposed of them or perhaps returned them to Sadie Hampton. That's another question I can ask her.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:13 PM
Maria
I just spoke with one of Hillary and Sadie Hampton's daughter and she said that it was indeed her father Hillary and a couple of other men who scooped up the blood and buried it. She said they dug a hole in the ground out there where the Lawson's vegetable garden had been because the earth there was softer from having been plowed under after the autumn crops had been harvested. She said if you were facing the front of the house where the porch was the garden was to the right side of the house not far away at all. She also said that her mother Sadie categorically denies that she was the one who provided the sheets that were used to cover the bodies and that she has no idea why it was written in that book that it was her sheets.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:17 PM
Angel71242
Wow Maria!!!!'! You are just incredible...the way you can find out almost anything!!!!!!!
So if the new house's garage is where the cabin used to be - seems like that bucket of blood got dug up when the new house was built. Do you feel the same?
And we know why Sadie's name was used in the book as the provider of the sheets......cuz it was written by Trudy Smith!! (notice mean smiley is facing Trudy's name!!)
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 04:26 PM
Maria
She said that the wash tub was not buried but rather they dug a hole in the ground and poured the blood out of the tub into the hole then covered it up. The blood I expect dried up and became mixed in with the dirt.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:32 PM
Angel71242
Well that makes a lot more sense than burying the whole tub!!!! (It's been a long day people!!) That would have been gross to be the one to clean out that tub after they poured the blood out!
Angel71242
11/17/07 at 03:53 PM
Michael818
Wow. Their blood being mingled with the earth... that opens up a whole new aspect of MY field of interest. As it says in that sermon on the soundtrack Cd, indeed, "Their blood DOES cry out from the ground!" I would be curious to know if anything was ever planted there again. Also, would be greatly interested in talking to the people who used to live there. Even if dried up and long ago mixed, such a thing could have caused what I look for. Also, one of my pal David's friends claimed she was a relative of those people, and that things did indeed happen n the new house. I'll ask Dave her name the next time we talk, and then you can see if she is their relative!
Michael818
11/17/07 at 04:01 PM
Maria
The people who use to own the property have both said they will never again speak to anyone about the Lawsons or the murders or anything related to that topic. And believe me they mean it. They have always told me that nothing ever happened in their house or on their property. They also vehemently deny the existence of ghosts and all things super-natural. Mention the word ghost to either of them and they will clam up and order you to leave. I'm just telling you this because it will be a bad scene for you and for them if you approach them.
Maria
11/17/07 at 04:06 PM
Michael818
Very well. But, if that girl really IS their relative, she was quite open about it. Incidentally, sometimes, those who have experienced such things deny it the most vehemently. It's ALMOST a red flag. They may have encountered something so shocking they don't want to remember. Anyway, I'm gonna find out that girl's name and find out if she was truthful or not. Did they have a daughter who'd be grown now?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/17/07 at 04:20 PM
Maria
Two daughters I believe but not certain. If you get me her name I will find out. Especially her maiden name. Was it Watts?
Maria
11/17/07 at 04:25 PM
Michael818
I think so, but I'm not sure. David will know, but he's in Raleigh. Will talk to him soon. Incidentally, he's the one who got the Blank scared out of him with two female companions on Payne Road around 18 years ago. It's in the new book.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/20/07 at 04:03 PM
Maria
Someone asked me today in a pm what I think the black stain on the wall between the fireplace and the chair with the coat hanging on it is. She asked if it might be blood stains. What say the rest of ye? To me it always seemed to be soot from the fireplace but now I'm not so sure.
Maria
11/20/07 at 04:36 PM
Angel71242
I gotta say, it looks like blood to me. Cuz it's not on the other side of the fireplace. Plus if it was soot, it would be on the walls that are all around the fireplace and they are clean, (and tell that pm'r to post...don't be scared!!)
Angel71242
11/20/07 at 05:47 PM
Michael818
What's that hanging on the chair?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/20/07 at 08:00 PM
LuvMyDog
Duh??? It's a coat Michael! And I too believe it was blood like Angel, it is too far from the fireplace and it seems like there would have been soot around the fireplace too?
LuvMyDog
11/21/07 at 04:32 PM
Michael818
Was distracted with an employee the other day when I was looking here. Re-read the sequence. D'oh!
Michael R.
Michael818
01/08/08 at 09:45 AM
Maria
Back to the coat hanging from the chair in the photo I wonder who it belonged to. It had to have been Charlie's, Arthur's, Marie's or Fannie's. I can't see it clear enough to tell if it was a man or woman's coat. Since it's beside the dresser close to where the hat is hanging I'm going to say it was a man's. Arthur's? Or Charlie's?
Maria
01/08/08 at 10:55 AM
Angel71242
If its a man's coat it's probably Charlie's. It was pretty cold that day and since Arthur didn't have murder on his mind, he probably had the sense to wear his coat.
Angel71242
01/08/08 at 11:14 AM
Maria
I guess it depends on when that photo was taken. The more I look at it the more I become convinced it's not big enough to be a man's coat. It might even be a sweater or a wrap around shawl. It definitely doesn't look like the long black coat Charlie wore that day.
Maria
01/08/08 at 11:37 AM
love2xstitch
Hi everyone, just wanted to mention that I have shown the murder scene picture to a W-S police investigator. He was in a hurry so I was only able to ask about the stain between the chair with the coat and the fireplace. He said it was blood and called it something. Sorry, forgot what the word was, but I did ask what he meant. He said that it was blood splattered as the person went back with the weapon. He quickly pointed out some other very small stains on the wall that he called matter. Just wanted to pass that along. I do not get to see this customer very often, but I plan on asking a few more questions on his next visit.
Cheers,
Stitch
love2xstitch
01/08/08 at 11:44 AM
Maria
WOW Stitch, that's great info. Thank you so much. That means that either Marie had her skull crushed as well as being shot or one of the boys that was bludgeoned was bludgeoned close to the fireplace. I don't want to think about what he called "matter".
Maria
01/08/08 at 11:44 AM
Angel71242
Cool info Stitch! Thanks for posting it!!
Angel71242
01/08/08 at 12:57 PM
Maria
Since that particular area on the wall was was so close to the floor it had to have been that someone was lying on the floor while Charlie was kneeling down otherwise the splatter would have been higher up as he raised the gun if he had been standing. My guess is that it was one of the boys James or Raymond because it's a little further away than where Marie was lying and it's also very close to the two blood stained pillows. The two pillows tells me also that both boys were bludgeoned there in that room. I've always thought it was soot from the fireplace because it was down too low on the wall to be blood splatter from shooting Marie. So thank you again Stitch for letting us know about this because it makes perfect sense what the police officer said and it clears up one more thing for me that had bothered me for so long. You don't post very often but when you do you pack a powerful punch!!!
Maria
01/08/08 at 04:13 PM
Angel71242
What you're saying makes sense. It is too low for that to be the spot where Marie was shot, so it is probably the
blood of one or both of the boys.
Angel71242
01/09/08 at 11:24 PM
doodlebug
There is something about the pillows that bothers me....the pillow on the right seems to have alot more blood on it than the one on the left. It makes me wonder if whichever child was placed on the right hand pillow was still alive. It may be simply that his head wounds were worse than the others one's but it seems like to have that amount of blood on the pillow, his heart would still have to be beating....(Stitch, maybe you could ask your friend about that?)
The amount of blood the human body carries is amazing....if you've ever spilled a quart of milk you'll understand how much that can be when you try to clean it up. On average, the body has about 6 quarts of blood, over a gallon. The amount of blood on the floor seems to be consistent with what I've seen as an EMT during a "bleed out"; if anything it's actually a comparatively small amount of blood for an adult. A bleed out on an adult produces an astonishing amount of blood...(Please understand that I'm basing this simply on estimated room size based on the furniture placement; estimated size of the fireplace, etc; combined with a basic knowledge of physiology and past experience.)
Does anyone know who the photographer was for the photo? Was it a reporter? If so, was the reporter ever questioned as to whether or not there were other photos made? I'm still having problems believing this was the ONLY picture ever taken of the murder scene?
If this makes no sense at all, forgive me, I'm going on two hours sleep and 3 pots of coffee...lol
doodlebug
01/09/08 at 11:30 PM
Maria
It's a well established and proven fact that dead people don't bleed. The blood, however little or much from each of the victims was shed while still alive. They may have been unconscious, but they were alive. I have no idea who took the photographs but I've always assumed it was a news photographer because the photos were in the newspapers the day after the murders. If a person in the neighborhood had taken the photos they would not have had time to get the film developed by the next morning. Only a news photographer could do that.
Maria
01/10/08 at 12:06 AM
doodlebug
Hmmm...Maria, you might have to track down that reporter or his descendants, lol! Who knows what they might have stashed away they don't even know about!! We found a picture of my great-grandma with Annie Oakley and Wild Bill Hickok in a box in her attic...
You're right, a person doesn't actually bleed after the heart stops, but they do continue to drain blood from the injured area...(oh, that just sounds horrid doesn't it??) The blood on the left pillow is probably consistent with simple drainage from a head wound, the one on the right makes me think that whichever child was placed there wasn't completely dead when the pillow was placed under his/her head. Then again, the pillow on the left is indented much more than the one on the right, so there may be more blood there than is apparent.
In a really strange coincidence, a customer and I were talking today, my grandmother was hospitalized last night with what they thought may have been a mild stroke. Needless to say, I've spent most of my day worrying over her and checking in with the doctors and hospital throughout the the day. This particular customer is an older man and asked me if my grandmother used a feather pillow. He told me to search the pillow to see if an "angel crown" had formed, as this was an indication of death. He mentioned a feather crown he had from the pillow his grandfather was sleeping on when he passed. I hadn't heard this phenomena in years; my grandfather used to refer to them as "Angel Crowns" and said that they would form in the pillows of someone who has passed away or were soon to pass and meant that they would receive their real angel crowns in heaven.
After the discussion about the crowns, I started thinking about the Lawson children and how Charlie placed a pillow under their heads....! would like to think that all of those pillows contained an feather Angel Crown... And I'm throwing out all my feather pillows and getting foam!!
doodlebug
01/10/08 at 11:56 AM
Angel72142
I've never heard of that. How interesting!
Angel71242
01/15/08 at 09:49 PM
laurie1125
Beside on the floor, it looks like blood on a pillow.
laurie1125
01/15/08 at 10:12 PM
Maria
HUH? Help us out here Laurie.
Maria
01/15/08 at 10:27 PM
laurie1125
In front of the bureau, it looks like a pillow with blood on it.
laurie1125
01/15/08 at 11:31 PM
doodlebug
There are actually two pillows in front of the bureau, Charlie placed pillows under the heads of two of the children after killing them....
doodlebug
01/16/08 at 08:34 AM
Maria
When you blow up the photo of the murder scene you can see right in the thickest area of the blood on the floor 3 pieces of something white. What is it? Scraps of paper? Can anyone in here tell what those 3 white things are?
Maria
01/16/08 at 10:17 AM
Angel71242
I see what you are seeing, but I have no idea what those could be.
Angel71242
Maria
I was looking closely at this photo of the room where the murders occurred and when I enlarged it twice I noticed two things that surprised me. I can't absolutely say for certain that what I think these two things look like they are to me are indeed what they are but they look very much like it to me. One is what appears to be two people in the mirror on the dresser. In the top right corner there appears to be the face of a woman but the person lower down than her looks like the face of an elderly man with a white beard. The only person I can think of is Sam Hill, the elderly man who led the people on the tours of the Lawson house. The second thing is what appears to be a small calender but when blown up looks to me like a Christmas card with a Santa Claus on it and he has one of his hands raised up like he's waving. You have to really look hard and enlarge it to twice it's size to see and recognize it. And even then some of you may see something different than I do and some of you may say you can't make out what it is at all. And that will be okay. I'm just saying what it looks like to me. I almost forgot but the card with what looks like Santa Clause to me is the top card taped to the wall to the right of the clock on the mantel. It appears to have some sort of tassel hanging down from it on the left side of the card.
Maria
11/12/07 at 01:07 PM
Angel71242
Yeah, I see what you're seeing. It looks like Santa to me too"! Weird" Maybe that was part of their Christmas decorations!
And I see what you see in the mirror too - could be matrixing - but yes, it does look like two people.
Angel71242
11/12/07 at 08:36 PM
LuvMyDog
Hi Everyone.....I was looking at the photo and I too see what appears to be a man with a white beard in the mirror, but I don't see a woman? And I can't tell if it was a Christmas card or not, but indeed it does look like it has 2 tassels hanging on it. Being that close to Christmas, I'm sure it was a Christmas Card. What amazes me most about the photo is the large pool of blood in front of the fireplace. I know that Maria was shot there, but it seems like an awful lot of blood for one person. How many times did Charlie shoot her? I have never seen so much blood for one person at a murder scene!
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 08:39 PM
Maria
I've no idea if she was shot more than once. Some of the blood might have been Fannie's but I don't know that for sure, just guessing. But thanks for pointing that out because I hadn't noticed how much there was until you did. And you're right, it's a heck of a lot of blood, especially for one person.
Maria
11/12/07 at 08:46 PM
LuvMyDog
I just wonder if Charlie would have dragged Fannie that far? I don't think so, because it would have given Maria a mirror of opportunity to react to the situation. But the blood in front of the fireplace is what bothers me.......it just too much for one person, unless he opened fire on her and shot her more than once. Just my opinion.
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 08:54 PM
Maria
Most of the blood is closest to the fireplace. It's very thick there. I've never been to a scene where a person has been shot so I've no idea how much a person bleeds. She was a large girl, but still...
Maria
11/12/07 at 09:57 PM
NascarLover
That picture really shook me up. It is so gruesome. I agree, it's an awful lot of blood for one person.
T.C. bowman
NascarLover
11/12/07 at 10:50 PM
LuvMyDog
I have been reading several articles on gunshot ballistics, and from what I've read it seems that it depends on how far the victim was from the actual firing of the "shotgun/rifle". There could be substantial damage to the victim if the firing was at close range. Which I believe had to be the case, because the house was very small, and not much distance from the door to the fireplace. However, I still haven't found a plausible explanation as to why there was so much blood from Maria's standpoint.
LuvMyDog
11/12/07 at 11:18 PM
Maria
Maybe Charlie hit a main artery? What they call a gusher. Would that have caused it?
Maria
11/13/07 at 07:57 AM
Maria
It's been said repeatedly that there were no Christmas decorations in the Lawson home that year. But if that was a Christmas card on the wall, and I believe that's what it was, then might there not have been other decorations as well. Some of the news paper accounts said there were no Christmas decorations while one said there was. Ruby Savage, one of Marie's best friends told us that she and Marie went to the woods around the Lawsons home two days before Christmas to gather greenery and red berries to take home and decorate with. She said she herself gathered up some but couldn't remember if Marie did or not. Most people decorate their mantels with greenery and berries but it's obvious there were no decorations greenery or other wise on the mantel above the Lawson's fireplace.
Maria
11/13/07 at 09:46 AM
Angel71242
I have to believe they had a few decorations! It's too sad to thing otherwise (with all those children)! part about Marie and Ruby gathering greenery and berries.
As for the amount of blood - I have read many many true crime novels and the amount of blood a person can bleed can be quite amazing. I believe I've read that the body contains around 6 quarts of blood. I just don't find it hard to believe that all that blood is Marie's. It's all contained right there in one spot so yes it would look like a lot.
Angel71242
11/13/07 at 09:53 AM
Maria
Good point there Angel. Thanks. I've heard people say that before about how much blood there was when they saw where someone had been shot or stabbed. They were always amazed at how much there was. I just hadn't noticed that until Luvmydog pointed it out though.
Maria
11/13/07 at 02:49 PM
Michael818
Even an average adult has at least 5 gallons of blood. As close as Charlie had to be, with a shotgun, it would have done tremendous damage to Marie's chest. There would have been a huge entry wound, and a gigantic exit wound. I'm sure he did hit an artery, possibly even the heart itself. But, maybe James was at his sister's side, and some blood is his too. Or, if there was much slope to the floor, Fannie's blood may have run and mingled with Marie's. You were in there, Maria. Just how big was that room? From the looks of the pictures, it just doesn't seem that wide to me. But, never having seen it, I just don't know.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/13/07 at 02:54 PM
Maria
If memory serves me well it seemed an average size room but when you factor in all in the big pieces of furniture in that room it makes for much less space size wise.
Maria
11/13/07 at 07:49 PM
LuvMyDog
Another point about the photo that is interesting to me is the "run" of blood from the large pool in front of the fireplace. Especially the one in the middle. It's almost as though the floor is on a downward slant, and maybe it was. I just found this a little odd that the blood would carry that far.
LuvMyDog
11/13/07 at 08:22 PM
Maria
Not all of that was blood. Some of it I've been told was the result of losing control of her bladder if you get my drift. I'm trying not to be vulgar here.
Maria
11/13/07 at 08:36 PM
LuvMyDog
Jeez.....sorry Maria, didn't mean to put you in such a bad position here. Thanks for the info though, it sure makes sense to me now!
LuvMyDog
11/14/07 at 10:45 AM
Angel71242
As old as that cabin was, I bet the floor did have a slant to it.
Angel71242
11/14/07 at 11:35 AM
Maria
The house was well over 100 years old when Charlie bought it. And we all know how wood warps over time. So a slant is definitely doable.
Maria
11/14/07 AT 05:43 PM
LuvMyDog
Michael stated in post#13, that exit wounds are much larger than the entry wound. Which would explain that there would be far more blood after the bullet passes through. My point and question is this, if Marie was shot as close as we believe her to have been and she had been standing in front of the fireplace, where is the blood spatter. I would think that there would have been an abundant amount of blood on the front of the fireplace, but don't see any. Is it possible that she was on her knees or possibly closer to the floor when shot? There just seems to be an awful lot of white on that fireplace for not one drop of blood to have spattered on it or the white cloth on the mantel. It would also explain why so much blood was on the floor. I remember reading somewhere here that Marie was a fairly tall young lady, so I would think this would line her up closer to the top of the mantel?
LuvMyDog
11/14/07 at 05:53 PM
Michael818
You know, I'd never really thought about it, but Luvmydog seems to have a point here. It really looks like Marie would have HAD to be down on her knees, or even on the floor. Maybe she fell in struggling with Charlie (if she did struggle with him), or tripped trying to get away. If she'd been standing, there would have HAD to be blood and flesh spatter on the wall or fireboard!
Michael R.
Michael818
11/14/07 at 06:06 PM
Maria
I hate to say this guys, but it's got me stumped too. I asked where the blood splatter was some time ago but never heard from anyone who could explain it.
Maria
11/15/07 at 09:46 AM
LuvMyDog
Yes, I agree also. Seems like there would HAVE to be blood splattered on the wall!! Michael's theory seems most likely, she either fell in a struggle or tripped trying to either get away or lunging for some kind of weapon. Good eye
LuvMyDog!!
11/15/07 at 09:57 AM
Maria
I've been thinking about this blood splatter thing. Blood splatter occurs more often in killings involving knives and blunt instruments to the head when the knife is inserted then yanked out over and over. Not usually in gun shot killings. The bullet enters then exits. Bleeding occurs. When Marie was shot with a shotgun she would have fallen to the floor immediately and bled there. I may very well be wrong as I am not a forensic or blood splatter expert. I've just watched CSI probably too much.
Maria
11/15/07 at 10:21 AM
Angel71242
From WCBC:
Blood was splattered over the walls and furniture. Death and its reminders were every where.
Even though it says this in the book, like LuvMyDog -I don't see any blood on the walls or furniture in the picture. But how good were cameras in 1929?? Maybe there are small droplets and the camera quality just isn't good enough to pick them up?
Angel71242
11/15/07 at 10:27 AM
Maria
News reporters cameras would have picked blood splatter up I'm certain.
Maria
11/15/07 at 10:34 AM
Angel71242
That makes sense. A reporters camera would probably be higher quality than the average Joe's camera. Another thing, I don't remember any reports of blood splatter on the front porch area from Fannie getting shot. Wonder why?
Angel71242
11/15/07 at 10:38 AM
Maria
Good question Angel. If there had been blood splatter from Marie being shot there would have been splatter from Fannie being shot. Right? Wrong? Anyone?
Maria
11/15/07 at 03:59 PM
Michael818
Perhaps the door was open, and the blood hit the porch and floor when Fannie was shot? The impact of a shotgun blast at that close range would have still left a spatter. I remember a prominent suicide who shot himself in the mouth with a shotgun. His blood and brain matter were still on the walls and ceiling three days later when his nephew and I went in the house to gather things for the man's sister (she just didn't want to go in there yet). My point being, if it spattered all the way to the ceiling with him, it would have spattered the wall with Marie. Another bothersome detail. Where is the hole in the wall, or the holes? The buckshot should have been embedded in the wall if she were standing, and in the fireplace or floor if she were down! Where is it?
Actually, now that I think about it, I think there had been an effort to clean some, but the stains remained.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/15/07 at 05:31 PM
LuvMyDog
Where exactly was Fannie shot? Was she shot in the snow? If she was then I'm sure most of the blood was washed away with the snow. I have never seen a detailed picture of the porch, so I couldn't say. But there is something about Marie, and the fireplace that is totally off. I thought it from the first time I saw it. And Michael, that is a great point about the gunfire, if it did indeed exit Marie instead of lodging in her tissue, (which happens sometimes too), then it should definitely be an obvious clue in the fireplace! Too bad all of us weren't there to collect the forensics! With Sherlock, (Maria) heading the gang, you know we would have solved how it happened" It would have just left the "why", but I think we have a finger on that one.
LuvMyDog
11/15/07 at 06:07 PM
Maria
Some of the blood was said to have been scooped up, placed in a bucket, then taken outside and buried. I don't know whether this photo was taken before or after some of the blood had been removed. As for where Fannie was shot I've always heard she was shot on the front porch, not in the yard. I don't know how much it snowed that day but there was blood leading up to the tobacco barn which led someone there where they then discovered the bodies of Carrie and Maybell. That means that if Fannie had been shot in the yard her blood would not have been washed away.
Maria
11/15/07 at 07:22 PM
NascarLover
Why did they bury the blood and did they bury the bucket as well?
T.C. Bowman
NascarLover
11/15/07 at 08:03 PM
LuvMyDog
I wonder why they would bury a bucket with blood in it? I just find this odd, but people back then did things differently than they do today. I'm sure they had their reasons.
LuvMyDog
11/15/07 at 08:04 PM
Maria
Hi Tim,
I heard that they buried the bucket with the blood in it somewhere in the woods behind the house. I have no idea "why" they buried it. Maybe something symbolic? Or perhaps they didn't want animals messing with it. I don't know. Looks like they would have just thrown it down the hole in the outhouse.
Maria
11/15/07 at 11:25 PM
LuvMyDog
Wow! I never thought about what happened to the blood during an investigation. That is really interesting what
they did back then, I guess now-a-days they take samples and then clean up the mess.
LuvMyDog
11/16/07 at 07:39 AM
Maria
They would also test the DNA. But if we're shocked about how much blood is showing on the floor in that picture, imagine how much was actually there if that photo was taken AFTER that man scooped up a bucket full of it. Actually, it wasn't a bucket, it was a metal wash tub. And from all I have heard and put together, the blood was scooped up that afternoon after the examination by Doctors Helsabeck and Spotswood Taylor was completed and the bodies removed. If that is correct, then that photo was definitely taken after the blood had been scooped up. Hillary Hampton was said to be the one who scooped it up and buried it. His wife is still living so perhaps she can verify or deny that claim as well as the claim that she was the one who provided the sheets for the victims to be covered with. If she says that yes it was her husband who scooped up the blood and buried it then perhaps she can tell us exactly where that wash tub of blood is buried.
Maria
11/16/07 at 09:38 AM
Angel71242
Oh my....wouldn't that be something!!
And she's still alive! She's got to be 90+!!
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 09:41 AM
Maria
She's 98 and though in failing physical health her mind is still clear and sharp.
Maria
11/16/07 at 09:42 AM
Angel71242
Awesome!!
Unfortunately even if she knows where the "bucket of blood" is buried, its on that private property right?
But maybe it won't be private forever! Maybe one day they will sell and if I win the lottery then I can buy it!!
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 09:46 AM
Maria
Dream on McDuff.
Maria
11/16/07 at 10:09 AM
Angel71242
Just curious - do you know if they buried the sheets that were used to cover the bodies too? Or did they just throw them away? They must have gotten a lot of blood on them.
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 10:17 AM
Maria
That's a great question Angel and the answer is: I don't know but I seriously doubt they were buried. Hillary Hampton's wife Sadie Hampton is the one who provided the sheets that were used to cover the bodies as they were brought out of the house, carried down the hill and placed in the waiting ambulances. Based on that I would say the bodies were carried on to the funeral home in Walnut Cove first and then on down to Madison with the sheets still covering the bodies. So it's possible the funeral home disposed of them or perhaps returned them to Sadie Hampton. That's another question I can ask her.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:13 PM
Maria
I just spoke with one of Hillary and Sadie Hampton's daughter and she said that it was indeed her father Hillary and a couple of other men who scooped up the blood and buried it. She said they dug a hole in the ground out there where the Lawson's vegetable garden had been because the earth there was softer from having been plowed under after the autumn crops had been harvested. She said if you were facing the front of the house where the porch was the garden was to the right side of the house not far away at all. She also said that her mother Sadie categorically denies that she was the one who provided the sheets that were used to cover the bodies and that she has no idea why it was written in that book that it was her sheets.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:17 PM
Angel71242
Wow Maria!!!!'! You are just incredible...the way you can find out almost anything!!!!!!!
So if the new house's garage is where the cabin used to be - seems like that bucket of blood got dug up when the new house was built. Do you feel the same?
And we know why Sadie's name was used in the book as the provider of the sheets......cuz it was written by Trudy Smith!! (notice mean smiley is facing Trudy's name!!)
Angel71242
11/16/07 at 04:26 PM
Maria
She said that the wash tub was not buried but rather they dug a hole in the ground and poured the blood out of the tub into the hole then covered it up. The blood I expect dried up and became mixed in with the dirt.
Maria
11/16/07 at 04:32 PM
Angel71242
Well that makes a lot more sense than burying the whole tub!!!! (It's been a long day people!!) That would have been gross to be the one to clean out that tub after they poured the blood out!
Angel71242
11/17/07 at 03:53 PM
Michael818
Wow. Their blood being mingled with the earth... that opens up a whole new aspect of MY field of interest. As it says in that sermon on the soundtrack Cd, indeed, "Their blood DOES cry out from the ground!" I would be curious to know if anything was ever planted there again. Also, would be greatly interested in talking to the people who used to live there. Even if dried up and long ago mixed, such a thing could have caused what I look for. Also, one of my pal David's friends claimed she was a relative of those people, and that things did indeed happen n the new house. I'll ask Dave her name the next time we talk, and then you can see if she is their relative!
Michael818
11/17/07 at 04:01 PM
Maria
The people who use to own the property have both said they will never again speak to anyone about the Lawsons or the murders or anything related to that topic. And believe me they mean it. They have always told me that nothing ever happened in their house or on their property. They also vehemently deny the existence of ghosts and all things super-natural. Mention the word ghost to either of them and they will clam up and order you to leave. I'm just telling you this because it will be a bad scene for you and for them if you approach them.
Maria
11/17/07 at 04:06 PM
Michael818
Very well. But, if that girl really IS their relative, she was quite open about it. Incidentally, sometimes, those who have experienced such things deny it the most vehemently. It's ALMOST a red flag. They may have encountered something so shocking they don't want to remember. Anyway, I'm gonna find out that girl's name and find out if she was truthful or not. Did they have a daughter who'd be grown now?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/17/07 at 04:20 PM
Maria
Two daughters I believe but not certain. If you get me her name I will find out. Especially her maiden name. Was it Watts?
Maria
11/17/07 at 04:25 PM
Michael818
I think so, but I'm not sure. David will know, but he's in Raleigh. Will talk to him soon. Incidentally, he's the one who got the Blank scared out of him with two female companions on Payne Road around 18 years ago. It's in the new book.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/20/07 at 04:03 PM
Maria
Someone asked me today in a pm what I think the black stain on the wall between the fireplace and the chair with the coat hanging on it is. She asked if it might be blood stains. What say the rest of ye? To me it always seemed to be soot from the fireplace but now I'm not so sure.
Maria
11/20/07 at 04:36 PM
Angel71242
I gotta say, it looks like blood to me. Cuz it's not on the other side of the fireplace. Plus if it was soot, it would be on the walls that are all around the fireplace and they are clean, (and tell that pm'r to post...don't be scared!!)
Angel71242
11/20/07 at 05:47 PM
Michael818
What's that hanging on the chair?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/20/07 at 08:00 PM
LuvMyDog
Duh??? It's a coat Michael! And I too believe it was blood like Angel, it is too far from the fireplace and it seems like there would have been soot around the fireplace too?
LuvMyDog
11/21/07 at 04:32 PM
Michael818
Was distracted with an employee the other day when I was looking here. Re-read the sequence. D'oh!
Michael R.
Michael818
01/08/08 at 09:45 AM
Maria
Back to the coat hanging from the chair in the photo I wonder who it belonged to. It had to have been Charlie's, Arthur's, Marie's or Fannie's. I can't see it clear enough to tell if it was a man or woman's coat. Since it's beside the dresser close to where the hat is hanging I'm going to say it was a man's. Arthur's? Or Charlie's?
Maria
01/08/08 at 10:55 AM
Angel71242
If its a man's coat it's probably Charlie's. It was pretty cold that day and since Arthur didn't have murder on his mind, he probably had the sense to wear his coat.
Angel71242
01/08/08 at 11:14 AM
Maria
I guess it depends on when that photo was taken. The more I look at it the more I become convinced it's not big enough to be a man's coat. It might even be a sweater or a wrap around shawl. It definitely doesn't look like the long black coat Charlie wore that day.
Maria
01/08/08 at 11:37 AM
love2xstitch
Hi everyone, just wanted to mention that I have shown the murder scene picture to a W-S police investigator. He was in a hurry so I was only able to ask about the stain between the chair with the coat and the fireplace. He said it was blood and called it something. Sorry, forgot what the word was, but I did ask what he meant. He said that it was blood splattered as the person went back with the weapon. He quickly pointed out some other very small stains on the wall that he called matter. Just wanted to pass that along. I do not get to see this customer very often, but I plan on asking a few more questions on his next visit.
Cheers,
Stitch
love2xstitch
01/08/08 at 11:44 AM
Maria
WOW Stitch, that's great info. Thank you so much. That means that either Marie had her skull crushed as well as being shot or one of the boys that was bludgeoned was bludgeoned close to the fireplace. I don't want to think about what he called "matter".
Maria
01/08/08 at 11:44 AM
Angel71242
Cool info Stitch! Thanks for posting it!!
Angel71242
01/08/08 at 12:57 PM
Maria
Since that particular area on the wall was was so close to the floor it had to have been that someone was lying on the floor while Charlie was kneeling down otherwise the splatter would have been higher up as he raised the gun if he had been standing. My guess is that it was one of the boys James or Raymond because it's a little further away than where Marie was lying and it's also very close to the two blood stained pillows. The two pillows tells me also that both boys were bludgeoned there in that room. I've always thought it was soot from the fireplace because it was down too low on the wall to be blood splatter from shooting Marie. So thank you again Stitch for letting us know about this because it makes perfect sense what the police officer said and it clears up one more thing for me that had bothered me for so long. You don't post very often but when you do you pack a powerful punch!!!
Maria
01/08/08 at 04:13 PM
Angel71242
What you're saying makes sense. It is too low for that to be the spot where Marie was shot, so it is probably the
blood of one or both of the boys.
Angel71242
01/09/08 at 11:24 PM
doodlebug
There is something about the pillows that bothers me....the pillow on the right seems to have alot more blood on it than the one on the left. It makes me wonder if whichever child was placed on the right hand pillow was still alive. It may be simply that his head wounds were worse than the others one's but it seems like to have that amount of blood on the pillow, his heart would still have to be beating....(Stitch, maybe you could ask your friend about that?)
The amount of blood the human body carries is amazing....if you've ever spilled a quart of milk you'll understand how much that can be when you try to clean it up. On average, the body has about 6 quarts of blood, over a gallon. The amount of blood on the floor seems to be consistent with what I've seen as an EMT during a "bleed out"; if anything it's actually a comparatively small amount of blood for an adult. A bleed out on an adult produces an astonishing amount of blood...(Please understand that I'm basing this simply on estimated room size based on the furniture placement; estimated size of the fireplace, etc; combined with a basic knowledge of physiology and past experience.)
Does anyone know who the photographer was for the photo? Was it a reporter? If so, was the reporter ever questioned as to whether or not there were other photos made? I'm still having problems believing this was the ONLY picture ever taken of the murder scene?
If this makes no sense at all, forgive me, I'm going on two hours sleep and 3 pots of coffee...lol
doodlebug
01/09/08 at 11:30 PM
Maria
It's a well established and proven fact that dead people don't bleed. The blood, however little or much from each of the victims was shed while still alive. They may have been unconscious, but they were alive. I have no idea who took the photographs but I've always assumed it was a news photographer because the photos were in the newspapers the day after the murders. If a person in the neighborhood had taken the photos they would not have had time to get the film developed by the next morning. Only a news photographer could do that.
Maria
01/10/08 at 12:06 AM
doodlebug
Hmmm...Maria, you might have to track down that reporter or his descendants, lol! Who knows what they might have stashed away they don't even know about!! We found a picture of my great-grandma with Annie Oakley and Wild Bill Hickok in a box in her attic...
You're right, a person doesn't actually bleed after the heart stops, but they do continue to drain blood from the injured area...(oh, that just sounds horrid doesn't it??) The blood on the left pillow is probably consistent with simple drainage from a head wound, the one on the right makes me think that whichever child was placed there wasn't completely dead when the pillow was placed under his/her head. Then again, the pillow on the left is indented much more than the one on the right, so there may be more blood there than is apparent.
In a really strange coincidence, a customer and I were talking today, my grandmother was hospitalized last night with what they thought may have been a mild stroke. Needless to say, I've spent most of my day worrying over her and checking in with the doctors and hospital throughout the the day. This particular customer is an older man and asked me if my grandmother used a feather pillow. He told me to search the pillow to see if an "angel crown" had formed, as this was an indication of death. He mentioned a feather crown he had from the pillow his grandfather was sleeping on when he passed. I hadn't heard this phenomena in years; my grandfather used to refer to them as "Angel Crowns" and said that they would form in the pillows of someone who has passed away or were soon to pass and meant that they would receive their real angel crowns in heaven.
After the discussion about the crowns, I started thinking about the Lawson children and how Charlie placed a pillow under their heads....! would like to think that all of those pillows contained an feather Angel Crown... And I'm throwing out all my feather pillows and getting foam!!
doodlebug
01/10/08 at 11:56 AM
Angel72142
I've never heard of that. How interesting!
Angel71242
01/15/08 at 09:49 PM
laurie1125
Beside on the floor, it looks like blood on a pillow.
laurie1125
01/15/08 at 10:12 PM
Maria
HUH? Help us out here Laurie.
Maria
01/15/08 at 10:27 PM
laurie1125
In front of the bureau, it looks like a pillow with blood on it.
laurie1125
01/15/08 at 11:31 PM
doodlebug
There are actually two pillows in front of the bureau, Charlie placed pillows under the heads of two of the children after killing them....
doodlebug
01/16/08 at 08:34 AM
Maria
When you blow up the photo of the murder scene you can see right in the thickest area of the blood on the floor 3 pieces of something white. What is it? Scraps of paper? Can anyone in here tell what those 3 white things are?
Maria
01/16/08 at 10:17 AM
Angel71242
I see what you are seeing, but I have no idea what those could be.
Angel71242
