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Post by Angela on Apr 28, 2009 8:37:35 GMT -5
Rember this thread from the old forum?!!
Martha (Tuttle) Montgomery, wife of Joseph Montgomery, died on December 18th, 1929, exactly one week to the day before Charlie Lawson took his life and his family with him in death. It was at her funeral wake that Charlie Lawson made his infamous statement: "I wouldn't mind dying if I could take my family with me". A week to the day later he did just that. Do you think this shows he was already thinking about doing something along those lines, or was it, as someone said in this thread in the old forum, just a normal comment made under that particular circumstance, something normal people think and say at someone else's funeral? If you heard someone say that at a funeral wake would it cause you concern or would you just write it off as something people might say at a time like that? If anyone thought anything unusual about Charlie Lawson sayng that at Martha Montgomery's wake they never said so. UNTIL after he put his words into action. I find it more than strange that the only person in the crowd of hundreds at her wake that made such a statement was also the person who atually made that statement a reality.
Maria
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Post by angel71242 on Apr 28, 2009 12:52:50 GMT -5
I certainly do remember this post!! After knowing the Lawson story, I will forever think "Oh No" if I ever hear someone say that at a funeral!!! But if I didn't know the story, I would probably lean more towards it just being some non-harmful comment made without really thinking about it. But in Charlie's case, I think he already had thoughts about what he was going to do running through his mind when he said that.
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Post by Jackhammer on Apr 28, 2009 15:18:22 GMT -5
I remember that post as well, and thought to myself that I'd hoped that Arthur never heard it.
Can you imagine how he might have felt? It'd be (maybe to Arthur) as if Charlie was thinking "I wouldn't mind dying if I could take my family with me. Well at least all of them but Arthur".
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Post by Angela on Apr 29, 2009 3:05:25 GMT -5
I hope Arthur didn't hear it either but he might have which would explain why Arthur started sleeping in his clothes at night. Does anybody know where that story came from about Arthur sleeping in his clothes at night. Who the source was? Or was that a free- floater in the book? If Arthur sleeping in his clothes was based on just an assumtion rather than from a reliable source then my scenario flies right out the window.
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Post by debbie on Apr 29, 2009 5:00:35 GMT -5
Terms like..."I could just kill her" or "I could just kill him" are things we all have probably said one time or another. But to be at a funeral and make a comment like that would have raised my eyebrow a bit. I'm sure he had already planned on killing his family at the time he said it. I just can't believe he killed his entire family without some forethought.
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Post by sissy on Apr 29, 2009 7:27:00 GMT -5
I remember this post, I don't know who else heard Charlie say this, but if he in fact did say this then yeah big warning sign. I don't think Arthur heard him but if he did that would explain why he slept in his clothes. But I think if he did hear him he would have let him get help.
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Post by Angela on Apr 29, 2009 7:37:19 GMT -5
It would have signaled to me that he was seriously disturbed and needed careful and constant watching. Marion should have insisted that Charlie go with him to the hospital in spite of his family begging him not to. At least that's how I see it.
Maria
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Post by smpyrtle on Apr 29, 2009 9:11:14 GMT -5
I've tried to think how I would react if I heard someone say this at a funeral or anywhere else. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that. I don't know what I would think. I'm sure no one thought that he meant he was going to kill all of them except Arthur. I really feel that he planned to kill them for some time before he actually killed them. He could have intentionally said this just to see how people would react around him.
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Post by angel71242 on Apr 29, 2009 9:42:32 GMT -5
He could have intentionally said this just to see how people would react around him. That's an interesting thought!! |
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Post by smpyrtle on Apr 29, 2009 14:55:04 GMT -5
Angel, You know how some people just say things to see how you will react and then it's sort of in a bragging way. I'm having trouble explaining this I've known people before that will tell you how mean they talk to people just so you will think they are so brave and to get your reaction. The whole time we normally think they are just bullies. Am I making sense? That's the way I feel about Charlie.
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Post by angel71242 on Apr 29, 2009 15:20:40 GMT -5
What you are saying is definitely a possibility.
Also, another way to think about it, if he DID say it to see what others would think - it could have been like a "cry for help" thing. Like they say about people who commit suicide or try to commit suicide. They will say something the person did was a "cry for help".
Although I believe what you explained above makes a little more sense in relation to the type of person Charlie was!
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Post by smpyrtle on Apr 29, 2009 17:24:52 GMT -5
That's a possibility also Angel. He might have thought someone would question why he would say something like that. We'll never know. It is just so odd that so many people thought highly of him. Of course, looks at the serial killers that so many people thought were really good family people and in their spare time they're killing innocent people.
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Post by Angela on Apr 30, 2009 5:56:23 GMT -5
When he said "take my family with me" the only way that could happen is for him to kill them all. That's what I would have thought if I had heard him say that. I know people sometimes say weird things at funerals, sometimes even cruel things like "God needed your little girl to grace his garden" (man that is plain awful) but never have I heard anyone say what Charlie Lawson said.
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Post by Angela on Apr 30, 2009 6:09:22 GMT -5
When you attend a wake and or the funeral you do so out of respect for the family as well as the person who died. If you are not a member of the family (which Charlie Lawson was not), your words and your actions should convey comfort, compassion, and a willingness to be of service to the family. YOUR wishes and desires are not to be considered at that time. Therefore, for Charlie Lawson to reveal and speak about his feelings relating to something he would like was totally self centered and out of place.
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Post by smpyrtle on Apr 30, 2009 7:15:48 GMT -5
"God needed your little girl to grace his garden" (man that is plain awful)
I agree with you on this Maria. I have heard people say things and I guess they mean well but it really didn't help at all. I read one time the best thing to say is "I'm so sorry" and let it go at that.
I guess we don't know what to say and say too much of the wrong thing.
Your observation of Charlie as being self centered is probably very correct.
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