Post by Brian on Jun 26, 2009 22:28:20 GMT -5
02/17/07 at 12:56 PM
LLL
Hi Everyone ! I noticed in the documentary that Charlies wife had joined the church along with the children and that Charlie wasn't very pleased with this fact. I thought back in those days that women could not express their feelings etc in the church and I figure that most families in that day would have made church a big part of their lives which would have been decided by the man for his family. This would of had to of been a defiant step for a woman to have taken in that day. I also wonder way Charlie opposed it so and really didn't like the children going to the Christmas program.
LLL
02/17/07 at 01:57 PM
jackhammer
Interesting question, LLL. It's hard for me picture myself in a marriage where my wife was not an equal partner. Would I want a wife that would do anything that she's told, and be afraid to contradict me? Not at all. I think as years have passed the male and female roles have become less and less defined. The "hunting and gathering" has given way to grocery shopping. Men and women both are capable of doing that. We have stay-at-home dads, Mr. Moms, etc. Occasionally, pay equality between the sexes. Back in rural 1929, it seems that the roles of the women were nurtunng, washing, cooking, cleaning, canning, etc., while the men were the hunters, farmers, mechanics, etc. Unfortunately, they (the men) were the kings of the castles, and ruled as such. I wonder how many women would even buy a dress or dothes for the kids without consulting her husband first. About ten years before the murders (1919), women were given the right to vote, elevating their status to more of an equal partner. This must have scared some men, and perhaps they took an even stronger stance in their "king" status out of fear of losing more Qround to their wives. I'm sure that there was peer pressure amongst the men to "control" their wives, lest they look like a weak husband. Sad. But perhaps a wife asking to join a new church was a threat to that master/servant type of relationship, if it was something that the man didn't want to do. Just kind of rambling here, but trying to put myself in the same place almost 80 years ago.
Much of die evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -
Margaret Weis
jackhammer
D 02/17/07 at 02:58 PM
ecalhoun
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhamnter
The "hunting and gathering" has given way to grocery shopping. Men and women both are capable of doing that.
As the saying goes, give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to buy fish sticks, and he'll eat for a lifetime! But seriously, it has always been interesting to me that Charlie didn't attend church, at least not regularly at all. I've always thought that in those times, and especially in small towns, you'd be shunned socially if you didn't attend church. But Charlie was always well regarded in his community, so that didn't effect their opinion. In a way, his not going to church could have potentially given the townsfolk a reason to talk bad about him later, but we've never gotten a whiff of anyone blaming his behavior on not being a regular church goer.
A think another important angle about the family not attending church is appreciating how much this separated Fannie from the community. It's funny that we think that "traditionally" women do the shopping for the family, but that certainly wasn't true in Charlie's time in the country. It was the men who went to the stores and got to gossip with their friends while the women were stuck out on the farm. The only weekly event that let them get off the farm was attending church, so when you took that away, poor Fannie didn't have much of a chance to socialize, and much less of a chance to talk privately with anyone about troubles at home.
Break of Dawn Productions
"Bringing Light to the Darkest Night"
ecalhoun
02/17/07 at 11:50 PM
Matt32
We definitely heard a lot about Charlie being 'a good man.'
many can do what no One can-
together, we Can beat domestic violence-
Matt32
LLL
Hi Everyone ! I noticed in the documentary that Charlies wife had joined the church along with the children and that Charlie wasn't very pleased with this fact. I thought back in those days that women could not express their feelings etc in the church and I figure that most families in that day would have made church a big part of their lives which would have been decided by the man for his family. This would of had to of been a defiant step for a woman to have taken in that day. I also wonder way Charlie opposed it so and really didn't like the children going to the Christmas program.
LLL
02/17/07 at 01:57 PM
jackhammer
Interesting question, LLL. It's hard for me picture myself in a marriage where my wife was not an equal partner. Would I want a wife that would do anything that she's told, and be afraid to contradict me? Not at all. I think as years have passed the male and female roles have become less and less defined. The "hunting and gathering" has given way to grocery shopping. Men and women both are capable of doing that. We have stay-at-home dads, Mr. Moms, etc. Occasionally, pay equality between the sexes. Back in rural 1929, it seems that the roles of the women were nurtunng, washing, cooking, cleaning, canning, etc., while the men were the hunters, farmers, mechanics, etc. Unfortunately, they (the men) were the kings of the castles, and ruled as such. I wonder how many women would even buy a dress or dothes for the kids without consulting her husband first. About ten years before the murders (1919), women were given the right to vote, elevating their status to more of an equal partner. This must have scared some men, and perhaps they took an even stronger stance in their "king" status out of fear of losing more Qround to their wives. I'm sure that there was peer pressure amongst the men to "control" their wives, lest they look like a weak husband. Sad. But perhaps a wife asking to join a new church was a threat to that master/servant type of relationship, if it was something that the man didn't want to do. Just kind of rambling here, but trying to put myself in the same place almost 80 years ago.
Much of die evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -
Margaret Weis
jackhammer
D 02/17/07 at 02:58 PM
ecalhoun
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhamnter
The "hunting and gathering" has given way to grocery shopping. Men and women both are capable of doing that.
As the saying goes, give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to buy fish sticks, and he'll eat for a lifetime! But seriously, it has always been interesting to me that Charlie didn't attend church, at least not regularly at all. I've always thought that in those times, and especially in small towns, you'd be shunned socially if you didn't attend church. But Charlie was always well regarded in his community, so that didn't effect their opinion. In a way, his not going to church could have potentially given the townsfolk a reason to talk bad about him later, but we've never gotten a whiff of anyone blaming his behavior on not being a regular church goer.
A think another important angle about the family not attending church is appreciating how much this separated Fannie from the community. It's funny that we think that "traditionally" women do the shopping for the family, but that certainly wasn't true in Charlie's time in the country. It was the men who went to the stores and got to gossip with their friends while the women were stuck out on the farm. The only weekly event that let them get off the farm was attending church, so when you took that away, poor Fannie didn't have much of a chance to socialize, and much less of a chance to talk privately with anyone about troubles at home.
Break of Dawn Productions
"Bringing Light to the Darkest Night"
ecalhoun
02/17/07 at 11:50 PM
Matt32
We definitely heard a lot about Charlie being 'a good man.'
many can do what no One can-
together, we Can beat domestic violence-
Matt32