Post by Brian on Apr 6, 2011 8:46:36 GMT -5
11/07/07 at 11:30 AM
Maria
Two relatives of the Lawson family, Stella Lawson (Charlie's niece) and Joe Lawson (Charlie's elderly uncle) both had a premonition about the murders. Stella had one the summer of 1929 in which she saw Fannie with an armload of wood headed towards her front porch. According to Stella, two large men with guns running through the snow behind Fannie and shot her. They then entered the house and shot every other member of the family. On the day of the murders, Joe Lawson woke up and started crying real bad. He kept saying "something's wrong, something is wrong". This went on all day and he could not quit crying, nor could he say why he was crying. The minute someone went to his house and told Leonard Bibey that something bad at happened to Charlie and his family, Joe Lawson quit crying and cried no more from that moment on.
Maria
11/07/07 at 11:36 AM
Angel71242
I had read that about Joe Lawson, but either forgot or didn't read about Stella. That is freaky weird, really freaky weird and gives me goosebumps!!
Angel71242
11/07/07 at 11:45 AM
Maria
It is that Angel. I find it curious that even though Stella had this dream in the summer, she saw snow on the ground in her dream which in the end turned out that when the murders occurred there was indeed snow on the ground. So that part of her dream turned out to be right. And Fannie being shot in her dream turned out to be right. But the part of everyone being shot was not correct because as we know, Marylou, Raymond, and James were bludgeoned. And Carrie and Maybell were shot outside near the tobacco barn rather than inside the house. Also as far as we know only one man was involved.
Maria
11/07/07 at 11:50 AM
Angel71242
I guess the visions aren't perfect, but they seemed to be close enough! I would just be so freaked out if I dreamed something like that and it happened11! Even though it's a little cool - I hope it never does happen to me!! I don't want to know that something like that is going to happen, cuz obviously it didn't do Stella any good to know.
Angel71242
11/07/07 at 12:20 PM
Maria
Joe Lawson's sense of something being terribly wrong intrigues me also. He experienced his feelings of something being terribly wrong only hours before it happened and lasted until the murders were over. At one point he got to crying much harder than the other times he cried that day. I feel certain that the deep crying spell occurred as each member of the family was shot and or bludgeoned and at the moment of each death.
Maria
11/07/07 at 05:59 PM
Michael818
Another interesting thing about Stella's vision is TWO men! 11 Could this mean Charlie had an accomplice, or, that someone else DID do it? I don't think so. I believe the vision shows that Charlie was two people; a public face for everyone, and the private sadistic you-know-what.
Joe's premonition is interesting too. Older people seem to have this gift more than others, or they've developed it better. Interestingly enough, neither is like the premos you hear of today with specifics, which the seer doesn't try to intervene because they are afraid people will think they're crazy.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/07/07 at 06:28 PM
Maria
What you said about the two men representing the two faces of Charlie is the kind of interpretation that is so
good I wish I'd been the one to think of it. That is incredible and it seems so right. I'm kicking myself for missing it. THANKS Michael, that was good.
Maria
11/08/07 at 09:33 AM
Angel71242
Yes, I agree Michael - the two faces. That was good!!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 11:51AM
Michael818
Thanks! This occurred to me long ago when I read it in "that first book."
Michael R.
Michael818
11/08/07 at 02:48 PM
Maria
Can you interpret the meaning of why Stella saw him go in the house and shoot everyone else when that didn't happen?..Carrie and Maybell were shot elsewhere. According to what she said about her dream was that Fannie saw the men and was facing them when the one with a gun shot her. The men then stepped over her and entered the house and shot everyone else. If so, then who drug Fannie's body into the house? And what about Charlie? He wasn't shot by them in the house. He shot himself in the woods.
Maria
11/08/07 at 03:06 PM
Angel71242
Obviously premonitions are not perfect (at least not Stella's) but they are d#&$ close enough!!!!!
I have a question though - in "that" book (I believe) it states that when Stella had the premonition (pretty close to the time of the murders) that she was living with her dad, Marion, and her grandparents Augustus and Nancy. Now how can that be right? From what I recall, Gus died shortly after Charlie moved to Germanton - this is Charlie's father that he got "so upset" about dying. And I thought Gus lived in Lawsonville. I'm so confused.....help Maria!!!!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 03:13 PM
Maria
That was a mistake about Augustus living in the house with Stella and her dad Marion Lawson. Augustus Lawson died in February of 1919, ten years before the murders. Nancy Lawson, Gus's wife and Charlie and Marion's mother may well have been living there at the time since she left Lawsonville and moved to Germanton a few years after her husband died. But Gus Lawson was definitely not living there or anywhere else.
Maria
11/08/07 at 03:17 PM
Angel71242
Oh I see - another one of those inconsistencies! No wonder I was confused! I Thanks Maria!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 07:50 PM
NascarLover
I wish I had more time to participate in here because there is so many interesting things in here to talk about. I like this forum because there's so much more information here than in the books written about this murder. I can learn more in here in one day than what's been written about in books because once a book is finished there's nothing more the author or anyone can add to it. This forum however is on going and we can ask all the questions we want to when we want to and someone will answer them.
T.C. Bowman
NascarLover
11/08/07 at 08:18 PM
Maria
"On going". I like that Tim!! That's an excellent description of the forum. And you're right about getting to ask all the questions you want to ask when you want to ask them. I never liked church very much because it's not interactive. The minister does all the talking and teaching and there's no Q & A session at the end. What he believes is what you're suppose to believe and you have only his interpretation of the Bible. You don't get to raise your hand and ask for clarification nor do you get the benefit of multiple interpretations like from other people with the ability to choose the one that feels right for you. He tells you what's what according to him and that's that.
Maria
11/09/07 at 01:48 PM
hillbillyghosthunter
I believe when you are close to some one you will KNOW that something has happened. For example when I was about 17 I had a dream about a very close uncle. He was in the back seat of a car and I was in the front. I turned around to find him choking his face had turned blue when I work up. I told my Mom about it that morning. Later that day I swear with every breath in me that we found out he was dead. My other uncle found him dead in his chair. He had actually died of heart problems.
I have had many dreams that have came true in my life and they are always warning dreams of something bad. I can also relate to Joe who had the feeling something was wrong. Often times before something bad happens it is always like a world of weight on my shoulder..and unbearable burden. Later I will find out some sort of bad news. Most the time it is of someone dieing. Then the feeling goes away.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
**********************************************
We offer low cost web design and web hosting services. We also offer low cost internet service as well. Please check out our site at www.techbydesign.org !
hillbillyghosthunter
11/09/07 at 04:02 PM
Maria
I know exactly what you mean Hillbilly, I've had numerous premonitions just like those. I had more of them when I was younger. They started waning in my early forties and I rarely ever have one now.
Maria
11/09/07 at 05:55 PM
Michael818
One gun had malfunctioned at the barn, forcing him to switch for the second kill. Supposedly, he bent the rifle trying to force it behind the stove to get Raymond. This left him just the shotgun to finish himself 9if he ever intended that). If he were low on shells, bludgeoning the others became a matter of necessity, not choice. If the guns hadn't gotten messed up, I feel pretty certain he'd have shot them all.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/09/07 at 10:02 PM
hillbillyghosthunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria
I know exactly what you mean Hillbilly, I've had numerous premonitions just like those. I had more of them when I was younger. They started waning in my early forties and I rarely ever have one now.
End quote.
I don't know about you but sometimes having those premonitions is a hard load to carry! I have learned a few things from them though. I have learned to always trust my instincts more.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
**********************************************
We offer low cost web design and web hosting services. We also offer low cost internet service as well. Please check out our site at www.techbydesign.org !
hillbillyghosthunter
11/10/07 at 07:23 AM
Maria
The difference between the dream and reality regarding everyone being shot was that Carrie and Maybell were shot outside at the tobacco barn which means that not everyone was shot in the house as Stella dreamed. Another difference was that Charlie was not shot in the house either, nor was he shot by the men who entered the cabin. He shot himself outside in the woods. It was never said that the rifle malfunctioned after Carrie was shot, only that Charlie switched from the rifle to the shotgun when he shot Maybell. So why did Charlie try to shoot the child that was behind the stove if the rifle was broken or he had no more bullets for that particular one? Either the rifle malfunctioned (though that was not stated) when he shot Carrie or it got bent as it's been said when he tried to get it behind the stove to shoot the little boy. If the rifle was not bent, broken or otherwise out of commission such as no more bullets then why did Charlie try to use the rifle to shoot the little boy behind the stove. That was when it was said trip rifle not bent.
Maria
11/11/07 at 09:07 AM
Michael818
Weren't there TWO rifles and a shotgun? If the first rifle didn't malfunction at the barn, then why did he switch to the shotgun?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/11/07 at 09:51 AM
Maria
It was 2 shotguns...one 12 gauge single barrel and one 12 gauge double barrel and one rifle.
Maria
11/11/07 at 11:02 AM
Michael818
OK. I knew there were three guns, don't know why I thought it was two rifles. Anyway, I don't think he ran out of ammo. Charlie was an experienced hunter, so i believe he would not have started the killing if he didn't have enough ammo to finish the job.
As for Stella's vision. Did she mention Charlie at all, besides in the context of "Charlie's family?" I don't remember hearing that she mentioned him being in there. Also, Carrie and Maybelle leaving might not have been planned until that day or the day before, so they might have been in the house in the timeline had been just slightly different. Visions are, however, often long on meaning, and short on concrete details. The entire family save Arthur, was wiped out.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/11/07 at 11:08 AM
Maria
No, Charlie was not mentioned specifically by name, only Fannie was. But Stella said that after shooting Fannie the men stepped over her body then entered the house and shot each family member one by one.
Maria
Maria
Two relatives of the Lawson family, Stella Lawson (Charlie's niece) and Joe Lawson (Charlie's elderly uncle) both had a premonition about the murders. Stella had one the summer of 1929 in which she saw Fannie with an armload of wood headed towards her front porch. According to Stella, two large men with guns running through the snow behind Fannie and shot her. They then entered the house and shot every other member of the family. On the day of the murders, Joe Lawson woke up and started crying real bad. He kept saying "something's wrong, something is wrong". This went on all day and he could not quit crying, nor could he say why he was crying. The minute someone went to his house and told Leonard Bibey that something bad at happened to Charlie and his family, Joe Lawson quit crying and cried no more from that moment on.
Maria
11/07/07 at 11:36 AM
Angel71242
I had read that about Joe Lawson, but either forgot or didn't read about Stella. That is freaky weird, really freaky weird and gives me goosebumps!!
Angel71242
11/07/07 at 11:45 AM
Maria
It is that Angel. I find it curious that even though Stella had this dream in the summer, she saw snow on the ground in her dream which in the end turned out that when the murders occurred there was indeed snow on the ground. So that part of her dream turned out to be right. And Fannie being shot in her dream turned out to be right. But the part of everyone being shot was not correct because as we know, Marylou, Raymond, and James were bludgeoned. And Carrie and Maybell were shot outside near the tobacco barn rather than inside the house. Also as far as we know only one man was involved.
Maria
11/07/07 at 11:50 AM
Angel71242
I guess the visions aren't perfect, but they seemed to be close enough! I would just be so freaked out if I dreamed something like that and it happened11! Even though it's a little cool - I hope it never does happen to me!! I don't want to know that something like that is going to happen, cuz obviously it didn't do Stella any good to know.
Angel71242
11/07/07 at 12:20 PM
Maria
Joe Lawson's sense of something being terribly wrong intrigues me also. He experienced his feelings of something being terribly wrong only hours before it happened and lasted until the murders were over. At one point he got to crying much harder than the other times he cried that day. I feel certain that the deep crying spell occurred as each member of the family was shot and or bludgeoned and at the moment of each death.
Maria
11/07/07 at 05:59 PM
Michael818
Another interesting thing about Stella's vision is TWO men! 11 Could this mean Charlie had an accomplice, or, that someone else DID do it? I don't think so. I believe the vision shows that Charlie was two people; a public face for everyone, and the private sadistic you-know-what.
Joe's premonition is interesting too. Older people seem to have this gift more than others, or they've developed it better. Interestingly enough, neither is like the premos you hear of today with specifics, which the seer doesn't try to intervene because they are afraid people will think they're crazy.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/07/07 at 06:28 PM
Maria
What you said about the two men representing the two faces of Charlie is the kind of interpretation that is so
good I wish I'd been the one to think of it. That is incredible and it seems so right. I'm kicking myself for missing it. THANKS Michael, that was good.
Maria
11/08/07 at 09:33 AM
Angel71242
Yes, I agree Michael - the two faces. That was good!!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 11:51AM
Michael818
Thanks! This occurred to me long ago when I read it in "that first book."
Michael R.
Michael818
11/08/07 at 02:48 PM
Maria
Can you interpret the meaning of why Stella saw him go in the house and shoot everyone else when that didn't happen?..Carrie and Maybell were shot elsewhere. According to what she said about her dream was that Fannie saw the men and was facing them when the one with a gun shot her. The men then stepped over her and entered the house and shot everyone else. If so, then who drug Fannie's body into the house? And what about Charlie? He wasn't shot by them in the house. He shot himself in the woods.
Maria
11/08/07 at 03:06 PM
Angel71242
Obviously premonitions are not perfect (at least not Stella's) but they are d#&$ close enough!!!!!
I have a question though - in "that" book (I believe) it states that when Stella had the premonition (pretty close to the time of the murders) that she was living with her dad, Marion, and her grandparents Augustus and Nancy. Now how can that be right? From what I recall, Gus died shortly after Charlie moved to Germanton - this is Charlie's father that he got "so upset" about dying. And I thought Gus lived in Lawsonville. I'm so confused.....help Maria!!!!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 03:13 PM
Maria
That was a mistake about Augustus living in the house with Stella and her dad Marion Lawson. Augustus Lawson died in February of 1919, ten years before the murders. Nancy Lawson, Gus's wife and Charlie and Marion's mother may well have been living there at the time since she left Lawsonville and moved to Germanton a few years after her husband died. But Gus Lawson was definitely not living there or anywhere else.
Maria
11/08/07 at 03:17 PM
Angel71242
Oh I see - another one of those inconsistencies! No wonder I was confused! I Thanks Maria!
Angel71242
11/08/07 at 07:50 PM
NascarLover
I wish I had more time to participate in here because there is so many interesting things in here to talk about. I like this forum because there's so much more information here than in the books written about this murder. I can learn more in here in one day than what's been written about in books because once a book is finished there's nothing more the author or anyone can add to it. This forum however is on going and we can ask all the questions we want to when we want to and someone will answer them.
T.C. Bowman
NascarLover
11/08/07 at 08:18 PM
Maria
"On going". I like that Tim!! That's an excellent description of the forum. And you're right about getting to ask all the questions you want to ask when you want to ask them. I never liked church very much because it's not interactive. The minister does all the talking and teaching and there's no Q & A session at the end. What he believes is what you're suppose to believe and you have only his interpretation of the Bible. You don't get to raise your hand and ask for clarification nor do you get the benefit of multiple interpretations like from other people with the ability to choose the one that feels right for you. He tells you what's what according to him and that's that.
Maria
11/09/07 at 01:48 PM
hillbillyghosthunter
I believe when you are close to some one you will KNOW that something has happened. For example when I was about 17 I had a dream about a very close uncle. He was in the back seat of a car and I was in the front. I turned around to find him choking his face had turned blue when I work up. I told my Mom about it that morning. Later that day I swear with every breath in me that we found out he was dead. My other uncle found him dead in his chair. He had actually died of heart problems.
I have had many dreams that have came true in my life and they are always warning dreams of something bad. I can also relate to Joe who had the feeling something was wrong. Often times before something bad happens it is always like a world of weight on my shoulder..and unbearable burden. Later I will find out some sort of bad news. Most the time it is of someone dieing. Then the feeling goes away.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
**********************************************
We offer low cost web design and web hosting services. We also offer low cost internet service as well. Please check out our site at www.techbydesign.org !
hillbillyghosthunter
11/09/07 at 04:02 PM
Maria
I know exactly what you mean Hillbilly, I've had numerous premonitions just like those. I had more of them when I was younger. They started waning in my early forties and I rarely ever have one now.
Maria
11/09/07 at 05:55 PM
Michael818
One gun had malfunctioned at the barn, forcing him to switch for the second kill. Supposedly, he bent the rifle trying to force it behind the stove to get Raymond. This left him just the shotgun to finish himself 9if he ever intended that). If he were low on shells, bludgeoning the others became a matter of necessity, not choice. If the guns hadn't gotten messed up, I feel pretty certain he'd have shot them all.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/09/07 at 10:02 PM
hillbillyghosthunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria
I know exactly what you mean Hillbilly, I've had numerous premonitions just like those. I had more of them when I was younger. They started waning in my early forties and I rarely ever have one now.
End quote.
I don't know about you but sometimes having those premonitions is a hard load to carry! I have learned a few things from them though. I have learned to always trust my instincts more.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
**********************************************
We offer low cost web design and web hosting services. We also offer low cost internet service as well. Please check out our site at www.techbydesign.org !
hillbillyghosthunter
11/10/07 at 07:23 AM
Maria
The difference between the dream and reality regarding everyone being shot was that Carrie and Maybell were shot outside at the tobacco barn which means that not everyone was shot in the house as Stella dreamed. Another difference was that Charlie was not shot in the house either, nor was he shot by the men who entered the cabin. He shot himself outside in the woods. It was never said that the rifle malfunctioned after Carrie was shot, only that Charlie switched from the rifle to the shotgun when he shot Maybell. So why did Charlie try to shoot the child that was behind the stove if the rifle was broken or he had no more bullets for that particular one? Either the rifle malfunctioned (though that was not stated) when he shot Carrie or it got bent as it's been said when he tried to get it behind the stove to shoot the little boy. If the rifle was not bent, broken or otherwise out of commission such as no more bullets then why did Charlie try to use the rifle to shoot the little boy behind the stove. That was when it was said trip rifle not bent.
Maria
11/11/07 at 09:07 AM
Michael818
Weren't there TWO rifles and a shotgun? If the first rifle didn't malfunction at the barn, then why did he switch to the shotgun?
Michael R.
Michael818
11/11/07 at 09:51 AM
Maria
It was 2 shotguns...one 12 gauge single barrel and one 12 gauge double barrel and one rifle.
Maria
11/11/07 at 11:02 AM
Michael818
OK. I knew there were three guns, don't know why I thought it was two rifles. Anyway, I don't think he ran out of ammo. Charlie was an experienced hunter, so i believe he would not have started the killing if he didn't have enough ammo to finish the job.
As for Stella's vision. Did she mention Charlie at all, besides in the context of "Charlie's family?" I don't remember hearing that she mentioned him being in there. Also, Carrie and Maybelle leaving might not have been planned until that day or the day before, so they might have been in the house in the timeline had been just slightly different. Visions are, however, often long on meaning, and short on concrete details. The entire family save Arthur, was wiped out.
Michael R.
Michael818
11/11/07 at 11:08 AM
Maria
No, Charlie was not mentioned specifically by name, only Fannie was. But Stella said that after shooting Fannie the men stepped over her body then entered the house and shot each family member one by one.
Maria
