Post by Brian on May 1, 2009 1:42:59 GMT -5
12/13/06 at 02:04PM
ChinbeardXIV
I own a copy of the original book and have always wondered what Arthur Lawson had to say about the murders/suicide, No one ever goes into any sort of details about him, We were at the Germanton Elementary showing on Saturday night and again, it seemed like Arthur Lawson just got shuffled into the mix. If anyone can shed some light on this, that would be great.
Thanks. CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 10:23 AM
ladebug
Hey,
This is a perfect opportunity for Arthur Lawson's decedents to express what they feel or heard growing up. When secrets are kept in a family it is ultimately a disservice to those left behind. My sister died in a fire and all my life (she was only 23) my parents just gave us dirty looks when we brought her name up. Yes, it was painful for them but what about us kids never being able to talk about our sister, If anyone wants to end or change this Lawson information it will be up to those who will not talk. ]ust my thoughts on the subject.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 11:04 AM
Maria
I agree 100% Ladebug. We all know what a havoc turning a blind eye and refusing to dialog with others can wreck. Closure and healing cannot take place by burying our heads in the sand or by deliberately clinging to a version of a story that that person knows to be untrue in order to hush it up. Alot of people have asked us why we keep bringing this up, why we won't just let it rest. I think the answer to that is obvious.
MARIA
12/19/06 at 11:15 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Well, Ladebug and Maria, that's exactly why 1 brought it up. I think there's more to the story. Puzzle pieces should fit without forcing them. The Lawson story is not only missing pieces, but the ones in the puzzle have been forced into place, in my humble opinion.
I spoke yesterday about the facts in any case as being pieces of a broken lamp. In this case, there are pieces missing. We would all love to have those pieces so we can figure out where they fit. Right now, our known pieces are being glued together with gossip, speculation, and half-baked hypotheses which some have accepted as the gospel. Our lamp must take shape before we can expect it to shine over us all again.
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 11:24 AM
ladebug
I would say in families and communities where domestic violance occures the tendency is to ignore it or not get involved. I am willing to bet that has been a very large part of the anger, perhaps those who lived back then would not get involved or speak up and now it would be embarrasmg to step forward and set the record straight. Whole can of worms there for some.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 01:51 PM
epdj
I don't think we can ever know what Arthur Lawson went through when he realized what had happen to his Family. First of all you have to study history and realize that the father of a family was the one who was over that family. His word was the law. He was the leader, the guide and what he said was what everyone in the family done. Also in a farm family everyone had work to do. We will never know for sure what Arthur went through, except what people have told us and what we read. For Arthur to have to live through this and know his whole family was gone. he must have ask, why didn't he kill me, why was I left. He must have felt guilt, hate, anger, and he was hurt, remember there was know counselors or groups, to meet with who could help him get over what had happen. He had to live, knowing people looked at him know matter where he wentp and I am sure he knew it. People was afraid of him and I am sure he knew they whispered behind his back. He had not done anything, but people are people, and we are judged a lot of times by our families. I cannot imagine what Arthur went through. Also Charlie's mother was alive and Fannie's parents, they had to live through this terrible thing. They lost their children and Grandchildren. We will never know the effect this had on them. Broke hearts, depression and always wondering why. I want to thank all the family members for everything they have ever done to help Arthur and his family. I want to thank the members of the Lawson, Manring, and the Bibey family for staying the strong people they are. I know that they have always been faced with the question, "are you kin to Charlie Lawson?" But, they have faced whatever came their way and have stayed the good family that I know they was from the first, before anything ever happen. They are the kind of people we hear referred to as the "Salt of the earth. " I am a better person for having meet the ones I have meet. They are strong for talking and letting this documentary be filmed. They didn't have to, but I think they knew it was time to let people know what they knew and felt about what happen. Esther Johnson
12/19/06 at 01:56 PM
ChinbeardXIV
Esther Johnson, I respect you immensely for having written such a heart-felt post regarding Arthur Lawson and the family, in general. It's not my intention to ruffle any feathers or pour salt into any wounds. I'm simply looking to sift through the resources and find specks of truth. Nothing more... nothing less...
You're a true friend to those people. CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 02:54 PM
ladebug
Esther that was a lovely response. I would like for everyone to understand many of us did not grow up in this part of the country and had never heard of this story until recently. If we seem to ask questions about parts we do not understand it is not to hurt anyone but to find some sence of what we have heard. This forum is only to exchange
ideas and information and never to hurt anyone involved.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 07: 10 PM
epdj
To ChinbeardXIV and ladebug. It is OK to ask questions. That is the way we learn about anything. I think everyone has questions, that is the reason people are still interested in Charlie Lawson and what happen.
Esther Johnson
12/20/06 at 03:12 AM
ecalhoun
I think one thing we can say, truly, is that a lot of people's lives were profoundly affected by the tragedy. It changed the lives of the family members, friends, neighbors in ways they never could1 ve been ready for. Today we call that trauma.
When we made the decisions on what to include in the film, we didn't want to put any of the survivors on display. We
let the audience consider for themselves what it would be like to deal with the death of 8 loved ones with thousands
of onlookers and media.
At that time, families "didn't air their dirty laundry" and talk to those outside the family, while at the barber shops and country stores news and gossip was swapped all day. The result of this was that the surviving victims and their families were the only ones who couldn't talk about the tragedy, while knowing full well that was what everyone else was talking about. This is how it lived on, and these hurts are passed from generation to generation.
I had a lot of compassion anytime I heard a story of anyone close to this story who struggled to live a normal life.
Trying to bring some good out of this dark moment in our history, I'd like this film to help people be aware that there are ways to cope with trauma. One thing making this film taught me is that you can't bear pain alone, if you hold on to it it'll touch everyone you do.
Eric
12/20/06 at 10:59 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Good morning, all! Just wanted to take the time to say that EVERY family has so-called "dirty laundry", without exception. It is only when we accept that and somehow embrace it that we can put it behind us. We all have one or another kind of abuse, just like we all have that old Aunt Belle who never was right in the head and that Uncle Timmy who we all knew was gay. It's just something we cannot run from. Why deny it? Hang that laundry on the line and air it out...
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/20/06 at 12:21 PM
BobbyWayne
Very nice artical Esther, but please check your spelling it's MANRING not Marring and thanks for posting your name
and thanks to the others for posting A name instead of some weird name must be ashamed of their birth name
oh well mistakes seem to never stop and someone posted my name bobbie that is a name for a female
sorry but I am male bobby
Thanks for changing it to manrmg
12/20/06 at 12:44 PM
ChinbeardXIV
Bobby Wayne, when posting messages to public boards, it is a common practice to use a screen name. I promise I'm hiding nothing.
I applaud your posts, being that you are a direct relative of Mrs. Lawson's side of the family. It means a lotto have a Manrmg present and I hope you'll continue to post.
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." --Alexander Pope
12/20/06 atOS:07 PM
Maria
Hey Chinbeard,
I'll air my dirty linen on line if you!!!!!
Just kidding. I'm too private a person to go public with some things. I've come to understand that what works for some people doesn't always work for others. It's what makes humans so wonderfully unique. Your posts are definitely a delight to read.
MARIA
12/21/06 at 09:25 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Thanks, Maria... I do enjoy discussing the finer points of all of this with all of you. We'll probably never know the whole truth, but at least we can sand down some of the rougher edges by talking it through.
I do, all kidding aside, feel that before we've left this board as a ghost town, we'll all have shared more of those soiled linens than we ever thought we would...
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/21/06 at 07:O8 PM
epdj
Hello Bobby, Sorry about that spelling. With these old eyes and that small print I thought that r was an n. Good to hear from you. Esther Johnson
12/25/06 at 11:44 PM
BobbyWayne
I feel that Charlie Lawson would have killed Arther also if He had came back before other
people showed up and he got scared and shot Himself, I feel he was laying in wait for Arthur
and the Lawson and Manring needed counseling thats why they was so upset over the Killings
and still are, Thank God they counsel people today in tragedy's like this and it seems funny
that only one person told that Maria was with Baby it's not on her death certificate and there was a autopsy. today if someone came up with such nonsense they would be sued and would have to prove that
she was indeed with child. Bobby Wayne
12/26/06 at 03:17 PM
ladebug
Hello,
I am guessing if you go back in any story many things such as someone being pregnant could easily be glossed over (in a small town where everyone knows the family) Even the undertaker would feel it was justifiable to not mention things left best buried with the past. I grew up in a small town and that's how we did things. Today things are different with lawsuits and all but in a small close knit area things are still mostly overlooked.
Ladebug
12/26/06 at 04:24 PM
Maria
Autopsies in 1929 were not what they are today. What passed for an autopsy back then would not meet the criteria for one today.There is no mention anywhere on any of the death certificates that a medical examiner examined the bodies. It only mentions the Coroner's name, C.J. Helsabeck. A Coroner cannot perform an autopsy because his is a political appointment. A medical Examiner is a physician and therefore qualified to perform autopsies. A Coroner's job is simply to pronounce that a death has occurred. Charlie's brain was removed and an autopsy performed on it but it was performed not by the coroner but by a pathologist at Johns Hopkins University. I have never seen any evidence that a full body autopsy was performed on Marie or any of the others. I don't believe even the coroner had heard the rumors back then of Marie being pregnant. Therefore he would not have known to look for that. Also, more than one person claimed they heard that Marie was pregnant. Only one person told the author of the book White Christmas Bloody Christmas but we have a man in our documentary who said he heard his mother say Marie was pregnant and that was on the day of the funeral in 1929. It was also told by another man in 1930 who was giving tours of the cabin.The author of the book was by no means the first and only person to reveal that.
12/27/06 at 09:58 AM
ChinbeardXIV
I don't mean to sound like a Doubting Thomas, but we will actually never know for sure if Marie was pregnant or not. It is even less likely if we were to know she was pregnant, that we could know the true identity of the father. It's just all speculation.
In retrospect, I think it's great that we at least have this mystery. Just knowing that there could possibly be more to the story, it makes more and more people interested in the story. This story is a very important one, too, because it opens our eyes to so many things: the perils of gossip, the evils of domestic violence, and the ever-lastmg/never-endmg pain chain that survivors are destined to carry and hand-down generation to generation.
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/27/06 at 03:39 PM
jackhammer
I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not, and if it has been, I apologize. But I was just wondering if Arthur was ever a suspect in the case. And I'm not saying that he should have been. It's just that today, when such a crime occurs, it seems like the surviving family member always becomes an early suspect.
I hope that I'm not offending any family members by bringing this up. I don't mean to imply any guilt. Just curious as to what the thinking was at that time.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 03:49 PM
hillbillghosthunter
I want to share a story that a member of the Lawson family shared with me that just touched my heart and made my hair stand up on my neck at the same time. This family member said Authur and his young family lived in the Lawson Cabin for a while and he said one night he was awaken and seen a vision of a lamb standing in front of the fireplace's warm glow.They said Authur always took that vision as a sign from God that his family's death was a sacrifise for a higher power and was meant to be. He took a little comfort in the sign and always held it close to his heart.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
12/27/06 at 04:20 PM
Maria
Hi Jack,
The rumor I have heard floating around about Arthur being a suspect is nothing more than what you are asking.In other words I have heard that question before but I think in all likelihood it was impossible for Arthur to have done it because it is established as fact that he was in Germanton buying shotgun shells when the murders occurred.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 04:27 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
The rumor I have heard floating around about Arthur being a suspect is nothing more than what you are asking.In other words I have heard that question before but I think in all likelihood it was impossiblg for Arthur to havg dong it becausg it is gstabhshgd as fact that hg was in Germanton buying shotgun shells when the murders occurred. Maria
Thanks, Maria. I can't remember if it was in the film, or if it was something that one of the people that was watching it with me said. But someone found it unusual that a store would be open on Christmas Day.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -
Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 05:01 PM
Maria
Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What we were told, and is in the documentary if I'm not mistaken, is that alot of people who owned business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 05:04 PM
ladebug
How awful if in fact Arthur's family had to live in the cabin at all. I thought they gave tours of the house after the tragedy and then the house was torn down?
Ladebug
12/27/06 at 05:06 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What WQ WQTQ told, and is in thg documgntary if I'm not mistakan, is that alot of pgoplg who ownad business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
That makes sense, Maria. My grandfather owned a small country store in central Illinois back in the early teens into the '30s. The store itself was a couple hundred yards from his house. He probably would have been happy to make a sale on a "holiday" as well.
Thanks.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 06:31 PM
lindajackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What we were told, and is in the documentary if I'm not mistaken, is that alot of people who owned business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
That makes sense, Maria. My grandfather owned a small country store in central Illinois back in the early teens into the '30s. The store itself was a couple hundred yards from his house. He probably would have been happy to make a sale on a "holiday" as well. Thanks.
Absolutely. Even today if you know the right people you can get what you need on ANY day.
I am fascinated by this case as are all of you, obviously.
12/27/06 at 06:36 PM
Maria
Welcome Linda to our "second home". ..The Message Forum. Glad you have joined us here. Any questions you
nave just ask away or any comments you want to post please feel free to do so.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 06:51 PM
lindajackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria
Welcome Linda to our "second home"...The Message Forum. Glad you have joined us here. Any
questions you have just ask away or any comments you want to post please feel free to do so.
Maria
Thank you SO much for the gracious welcome and all the details.
I think this is just a haunting case much like the Lizzie Borden affair (I did spend the night in Lizzie's room this past spring; I am Addicted with a capital A). We are still searching for answers after decades.
I applaud your search for answers. a And I do feel you will get some.
12/27/06 at 07:03 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinbeardXIV
I don't mean to sound like a Doubting Thomas, but we will actually never know for sure if Marieane was pregnant or not. It is even less likely, if we were to knew she wss pregnant, that we could know the true identity of the father, it's just all speculation.
In retrospect, I think it's great that we at least have this mystery. Just knowing that there could possibly be more to the story, it makes more and more people interested in the story. This story is a very important one, too, because it opens our eyes to so many things; the perils of gossip, the evils of domestic violence, and the ever-lasting/never-ending pain chain that survivors are destined to carry and hand-down generation to generation.
Unquote:
This was just shortly after the big stock market crash in 1929, While none of the family (from the picture) looks skinny, none are carrying extra weight, either, Except Marie. Maybe it's just the camera angle or the cut of the dress, but she does have a little bit of extra weight in the middle, (she has no waist) Just my opinion.
12/28/06 at 03:54 PM
Maria
Welcome to our message board Deb and join in anytime you have a question that needs answering. Or just reply to another post or whatever. We're glad you're here.
MARIA
12/28/06 at O8:19 PM
ecalhoun
Just if it ain't been said, it is too long in the past for any sort of autopsy to be performed on the bodies. We spoke to university folks on this subject when we were enquiring about Charlie's brain, and the examination that was done on it at Johns Hopkins University. They said that after that much time, any examination of the remains would be a question for archeology, not forensic science. Also, she wasn't far enough along for there to be any kind of remains on a child, and no DNA test on bones would help with the pregnancy question. It really is lost in history, and it doesn't help at all that we got really solid testimony both that she was and wasn't pregnant...
eric
Break of Dawn Productions "Bringing Light to the Darkest Night"
12/29/06 at 05:42 PM
epdj
Back in those days alot of people were like my grandparents who run a community store. They lived right behind the store and everyone in the community new they would go to the store any time. My grandfather was a carpenter and while he was off working during the day, my grandmother kept it open. Sometimes she would close the store and go to the house to do her work, if someone came and the store was closed they would stand in the rd. below the house and holler, store, store, we want to get in the store. Nights and wk. ends my grandfather kept the store open. The Charlie Lawson Family and the people who lived around them knew which stores in their neighborhood was open or would open any time, if they was closed. The neighborhood store was the gethering place. At night and wk. ends men would play checkers at my grandparents store. In the summer they would pitch Horseshoes. People would stop there and my grandmother would cut them off a slice of bologna and make them a sandwich. They would buy Sardines. She kept crackers and she had a bottle of Vinegar with the top on it and they would take a nail and make a hole in the top so people could put Vinegar on their Sardines. Everything went on at the country stores. The best story I like to tell about the store, was about my uncle who caught a Big Black Crow up on the mountain and brought it back home with him. He lived in the house beside of my granparents. He kept the Crows Feathers Clipped on its wings. That way it could not fly away. That Crow soon learn to talk. What do you think was his favorite thing to say? You guessed it,when my grandmother closed the store and went to the house he would fly up in a tree next to the store and holler, store, store, I want to get in the store. So help me that is the truth. Didn't take long for my grandmother to figure out what was going on. Us grandkids hated that crow. He would sit on the fence behind my uncles and fly down and peck us on the legs,everytime we came out of the house (Back then girls wore dresses). We was afraid of him. Esther Johnson
12/29/06 at 06:19 PM
Cephus
The ? of the store being open on Christmas day I have a copie of Stella Lawson Boles book A Child in the Midst she says her brother Sanders said they went in Mr. Luther McKmsey's store. Sanders was the one who walked to the store with Arthur.
12/29/06 at 07:02 PM
Maria
Hi Cephus,
it's been my understanding for a while now that Arthur was driving the dump truck that wrecked that night in which he was killed. He worked for Marshall Poindexter Watts driving a dump truck. So I tend to believe that since it was his truck that he was the one driving it that night. I also have heard, contrary to the lady's statement in the documentary that the passenger in the truck that night, Blame Nelson WAS injured and injured badly. He would have bled to death if a nurse on her way home from work that night and saw the accident had not stopped and treated Blame by applying pressure to his wounds until an ambulance arrived. She had determined that Arthur was dead so she then turned her attention to helping Blaine This info was told to me by someone who knows Elaine Nelson's wife and she said Blame's wife told her that.
MARIA
12/29/06 at07:4S PM
JiNx
Does anyone know where abouts Arthur's wreck happened? I know it was on HWY 311 going toward Walkertown and that streatch of road is more or less a straight shot with hardly any curves. I was just wondering cause i can look out my front window and see 311. I travel it every day and didnt know that was the road he was killed on till i saw the DVD.
12/30/08 at 09:59 PM
epdj
Another thing I wanted to say about the community stores,back in 1929 the whole community revolved around the community stores. People didn't have away to get to the stores back then like they do now. Most of the time they walked- Especially women and children. They could sale butter and eggs and things from the farm. Also they could charge the things they got- So the neighborhood store was something people had to have back then. Esther Johnson
12/30/06 at 10:09 PM
ladebug
I would guess there were only a couple of places to hang out in those days.grocery or hardware store being main places to meet and get the gossip as well.
Ladebug
12/31/06 at 08:22 PM
epdj
Ladebug, You are right. The store was the place to hang out and hear all the newsp but guess who hung out there. It was not the women. Women stayed at home and did their work and looked after the family. Esther Johnson
12/31/06 at O8:31 PM
ladebug
Oh howw funny! You are right I am sure, just as in those days it was the women running about cooking at festivities and the men were able to sit and chat? Thats what I remember from family gatherings.
Ladebug
12/30/06 at 09:59 PM
epdj
Another thing I wanted to say about the community stores, back in 1929 the whole community revolved around the community stores. People didn't have away to get to the stores back then like they do now. Most of the time they walked. Especially women and children. They could sale butter and eggs and things from the farm. Also they could charge the things they got. So the neighborhood store was something people had to have back then. Esther Johnson
12/30/06 at 10:09 PM
ladebug
I would guess there were only a couple of places to hang out in those days, grocery or hardware store being mam places to meet and get the gossip as well.
Ladebug
12/31/06 at O8:22 PM
epdj
Ladebug, You are right. The store was the place to hang out and hear all the news, but guess who hung out there. It was not the women. Women stayed at home and did their work and looked after the family. Esther Johnson
12/31/06 at O8:31 PM
ladebug
Oh, how funny! You are right I am sure, just as in those days it was the women running about cooking at festivities and the men were able to sit and chat? Thats what I remember from family gatherings.
Ladebug
01/03/07 at 04:13 PM
sissy
I feel sorry for Arthur too. Having to live with this horrible thing for so many years, and as far as crossing the line between public or private Charlie lawson jumped with bath feet ovsr that Ihe when he pulled the trigger of his gun. when he murdered his family he invited us all into there private lives whether we wanted to be there or not.
0l/03/07 at 04:26 PM
Maria
Hi Chinbeard,
Ramblings fine. I do that myself occasionally. The murders of the Lawson family went public long before I was born. There is no way to keep any portion of it private anymore. And Charlie Lawson was accused of getting Marie pregnant even before the murders. When something as horrendous as this happens, people are going to want to know "WHY". And who knows, by continuing to dig into it someone may actually find out with proof that he didnt do that to his daughter. Isnt it equally important to clear a man's name when a charge like that is leveled at him. I've often prayed to God that if Charlie Lawson didn't do to his daughter the horrible thing he's been accused of, then help me find something to clear his name. He would deserve that. And what do we know about Arthur? Precious little. I think that it's usually proven that domestic violence is never a one time thing and that usually everyone in the immediate family knows about it even if they dont admit it. What did Arthur know? And last but not least, when dealing with domestic violence it seems best to me to find the thing that caused it to escalate into seven murders and one suicide. I definitely agree with Sissy on this that Charlie Lawson pushed it into the public eye. And I agree with hackhammer's comments on it. They both made great points on it. But I'm also glad you posted your feelings about this because it shows that you are interested in it but not purely from a morbid stand point. I like that...your compassion for Arthur.
MARIA
01/03/07 at 05:41 PM
ladebug
Now Chirnbeard, I am a bit worried about you today! We will send you some positive vibes...I think it is all very sad ndeed and I so feel for Arthur and what he had to live with. Perhaps I would mostly like to speak to Arthur and ask what his thoughts were. Here is the crux of the problem all around. SECRETS in a family and community where people may have known but didnt want to get involved with a man and his problems? If we do not talk we do not solve problems and pretending they are not there for some is easiest.
My thoughts for today.
Ladebug
01/04/07at 09:53 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Sorry all...yesterday was the product of over-thinking, I'm sure.
I dont want to overuse the forum's space, so if anyone has Questions about my thoughts and/or opinions, reel free to send me an e-mail at Jonestownl4@yahoo.com.
Keep posting!!!
CBX1V
01/04/07 at 10:01 AM
ladebug
Hey,we want to hear your postings! Besides we would miss your input if you are not making comments and
keeping us going here. I think most of us consider all our family of posters "Friends Now"
Ladebug
01/04/07 at 10:03 AM
Maria
HI,
You aren't over using the space here Kenny. This is where I come to share my thoughts, beliefs, interpretations, tips, answers, dues, and new info etc. Not in peoples e-mail boxes. If we go that way then only you and the person
who e-mailed you benefit from your thoughts and ideas. No one else does. So when you dan't find me in your e-mail box it doesn't mean I'm not interested in what you have to say or what you think, it just means that I want all of us in here to benefit from it. I hope you will comeback in here again because like ladebug, I would rniss you alot.
MARIA
01/04/D7 at 10:13 AM
ChinbeardXIV
I think I may have used the wrong words or something to convey my last thought. I'm all about sharing my thoughts and ideas in our forum-I just wanted everyone to know that if they want more in-depth, detailed discussions, mv e-mail is available.
For instance, I'm all over the "innocent until proven guilty" thing today. If there's nothing but word-of-mouth passed from generation to generation by third-party people, then I'm not sold on Marie even being pregnant at all. If she weren't pregnant and the whole incestuous thing was bitter salt poured into the wound, then suddenly, ol Charlie becomes just an old farmer who lost his mind (due to injury, etc.) and killed his family. You know?
See? Rambling...
01/04/07 at 10:15 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Oh..and I do consider all you guys as friends in our little forum family, we're all here for the same reason, I believe. Thank you all for providing us with this little spot to share and exchange ideas..
01/04/07 at 10:29 AM
ladebug
We may never know the reason but isn't it interesting to research the clues and fetter out the new ones? I will tell you a story from my own experience. My mom was raised by her Grandparents. All my life I heard moms sad story how her father left and her mom dropped her at Grandmas. As an adult I started doing genealogy on the family and sent away for her moms divorce decree. It said my mom was maybe 18 months old when this divorce happened! (hence she had lived with her Mom & Dad until then) It also said it was a physically abusive situation and that was why she went to her grand parents to live while her mom left the state. Wow, my mom lived all her life thinking she was not wanted by her parents and that was not the whole story. That's why I think digging is a good thing to heal wounds for many.
Ladebug
01/04/07 at 10:31 AM
Maria
Okay. ..does this mean we should start calling you THE RAMBLING MAN instead of Chinbeard? The way I see it is this...just because all we have is third party statements that Marie was pregnant, doesn't mean she wasn't. Doesn't mean she was either. But it doesn't mean she wasn't. When more than one relative who knew her at that time comes out and says she was such and such a thing, and they have nothing to gain but everything to lose by revealing that info. I tend to stand up and listen and question and wonder and yes, even think...well my goodness, perhaps they are telling the truth. That they know more about this than I knew. That's all. One more thing here while we are at it...could we start anther thread instead of adding to this one which is now 3 pages long. This thread is about Arthur. Maybe vie could da a thread that says Marie.
ChinbeardXIV
I own a copy of the original book and have always wondered what Arthur Lawson had to say about the murders/suicide, No one ever goes into any sort of details about him, We were at the Germanton Elementary showing on Saturday night and again, it seemed like Arthur Lawson just got shuffled into the mix. If anyone can shed some light on this, that would be great.
Thanks. CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 10:23 AM
ladebug
Hey,
This is a perfect opportunity for Arthur Lawson's decedents to express what they feel or heard growing up. When secrets are kept in a family it is ultimately a disservice to those left behind. My sister died in a fire and all my life (she was only 23) my parents just gave us dirty looks when we brought her name up. Yes, it was painful for them but what about us kids never being able to talk about our sister, If anyone wants to end or change this Lawson information it will be up to those who will not talk. ]ust my thoughts on the subject.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 11:04 AM
Maria
I agree 100% Ladebug. We all know what a havoc turning a blind eye and refusing to dialog with others can wreck. Closure and healing cannot take place by burying our heads in the sand or by deliberately clinging to a version of a story that that person knows to be untrue in order to hush it up. Alot of people have asked us why we keep bringing this up, why we won't just let it rest. I think the answer to that is obvious.
MARIA
12/19/06 at 11:15 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Well, Ladebug and Maria, that's exactly why 1 brought it up. I think there's more to the story. Puzzle pieces should fit without forcing them. The Lawson story is not only missing pieces, but the ones in the puzzle have been forced into place, in my humble opinion.
I spoke yesterday about the facts in any case as being pieces of a broken lamp. In this case, there are pieces missing. We would all love to have those pieces so we can figure out where they fit. Right now, our known pieces are being glued together with gossip, speculation, and half-baked hypotheses which some have accepted as the gospel. Our lamp must take shape before we can expect it to shine over us all again.
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 11:24 AM
ladebug
I would say in families and communities where domestic violance occures the tendency is to ignore it or not get involved. I am willing to bet that has been a very large part of the anger, perhaps those who lived back then would not get involved or speak up and now it would be embarrasmg to step forward and set the record straight. Whole can of worms there for some.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 01:51 PM
epdj
I don't think we can ever know what Arthur Lawson went through when he realized what had happen to his Family. First of all you have to study history and realize that the father of a family was the one who was over that family. His word was the law. He was the leader, the guide and what he said was what everyone in the family done. Also in a farm family everyone had work to do. We will never know for sure what Arthur went through, except what people have told us and what we read. For Arthur to have to live through this and know his whole family was gone. he must have ask, why didn't he kill me, why was I left. He must have felt guilt, hate, anger, and he was hurt, remember there was know counselors or groups, to meet with who could help him get over what had happen. He had to live, knowing people looked at him know matter where he wentp and I am sure he knew it. People was afraid of him and I am sure he knew they whispered behind his back. He had not done anything, but people are people, and we are judged a lot of times by our families. I cannot imagine what Arthur went through. Also Charlie's mother was alive and Fannie's parents, they had to live through this terrible thing. They lost their children and Grandchildren. We will never know the effect this had on them. Broke hearts, depression and always wondering why. I want to thank all the family members for everything they have ever done to help Arthur and his family. I want to thank the members of the Lawson, Manring, and the Bibey family for staying the strong people they are. I know that they have always been faced with the question, "are you kin to Charlie Lawson?" But, they have faced whatever came their way and have stayed the good family that I know they was from the first, before anything ever happen. They are the kind of people we hear referred to as the "Salt of the earth. " I am a better person for having meet the ones I have meet. They are strong for talking and letting this documentary be filmed. They didn't have to, but I think they knew it was time to let people know what they knew and felt about what happen. Esther Johnson
12/19/06 at 01:56 PM
ChinbeardXIV
Esther Johnson, I respect you immensely for having written such a heart-felt post regarding Arthur Lawson and the family, in general. It's not my intention to ruffle any feathers or pour salt into any wounds. I'm simply looking to sift through the resources and find specks of truth. Nothing more... nothing less...
You're a true friend to those people. CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/19/06 at 02:54 PM
ladebug
Esther that was a lovely response. I would like for everyone to understand many of us did not grow up in this part of the country and had never heard of this story until recently. If we seem to ask questions about parts we do not understand it is not to hurt anyone but to find some sence of what we have heard. This forum is only to exchange
ideas and information and never to hurt anyone involved.
Ladebug
12/19/06 at 07: 10 PM
epdj
To ChinbeardXIV and ladebug. It is OK to ask questions. That is the way we learn about anything. I think everyone has questions, that is the reason people are still interested in Charlie Lawson and what happen.
Esther Johnson
12/20/06 at 03:12 AM
ecalhoun
I think one thing we can say, truly, is that a lot of people's lives were profoundly affected by the tragedy. It changed the lives of the family members, friends, neighbors in ways they never could1 ve been ready for. Today we call that trauma.
When we made the decisions on what to include in the film, we didn't want to put any of the survivors on display. We
let the audience consider for themselves what it would be like to deal with the death of 8 loved ones with thousands
of onlookers and media.
At that time, families "didn't air their dirty laundry" and talk to those outside the family, while at the barber shops and country stores news and gossip was swapped all day. The result of this was that the surviving victims and their families were the only ones who couldn't talk about the tragedy, while knowing full well that was what everyone else was talking about. This is how it lived on, and these hurts are passed from generation to generation.
I had a lot of compassion anytime I heard a story of anyone close to this story who struggled to live a normal life.
Trying to bring some good out of this dark moment in our history, I'd like this film to help people be aware that there are ways to cope with trauma. One thing making this film taught me is that you can't bear pain alone, if you hold on to it it'll touch everyone you do.
Eric
12/20/06 at 10:59 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Good morning, all! Just wanted to take the time to say that EVERY family has so-called "dirty laundry", without exception. It is only when we accept that and somehow embrace it that we can put it behind us. We all have one or another kind of abuse, just like we all have that old Aunt Belle who never was right in the head and that Uncle Timmy who we all knew was gay. It's just something we cannot run from. Why deny it? Hang that laundry on the line and air it out...
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/20/06 at 12:21 PM
BobbyWayne
Very nice artical Esther, but please check your spelling it's MANRING not Marring and thanks for posting your name
and thanks to the others for posting A name instead of some weird name must be ashamed of their birth name
oh well mistakes seem to never stop and someone posted my name bobbie that is a name for a female
sorry but I am male bobby
Thanks for changing it to manrmg
12/20/06 at 12:44 PM
ChinbeardXIV
Bobby Wayne, when posting messages to public boards, it is a common practice to use a screen name. I promise I'm hiding nothing.
I applaud your posts, being that you are a direct relative of Mrs. Lawson's side of the family. It means a lotto have a Manrmg present and I hope you'll continue to post.
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." --Alexander Pope
12/20/06 atOS:07 PM
Maria
Hey Chinbeard,
I'll air my dirty linen on line if you!!!!!
Just kidding. I'm too private a person to go public with some things. I've come to understand that what works for some people doesn't always work for others. It's what makes humans so wonderfully unique. Your posts are definitely a delight to read.
MARIA
12/21/06 at 09:25 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Thanks, Maria... I do enjoy discussing the finer points of all of this with all of you. We'll probably never know the whole truth, but at least we can sand down some of the rougher edges by talking it through.
I do, all kidding aside, feel that before we've left this board as a ghost town, we'll all have shared more of those soiled linens than we ever thought we would...
CBXIV
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/21/06 at 07:O8 PM
epdj
Hello Bobby, Sorry about that spelling. With these old eyes and that small print I thought that r was an n. Good to hear from you. Esther Johnson
12/25/06 at 11:44 PM
BobbyWayne
I feel that Charlie Lawson would have killed Arther also if He had came back before other
people showed up and he got scared and shot Himself, I feel he was laying in wait for Arthur
and the Lawson and Manring needed counseling thats why they was so upset over the Killings
and still are, Thank God they counsel people today in tragedy's like this and it seems funny
that only one person told that Maria was with Baby it's not on her death certificate and there was a autopsy. today if someone came up with such nonsense they would be sued and would have to prove that
she was indeed with child. Bobby Wayne
12/26/06 at 03:17 PM
ladebug
Hello,
I am guessing if you go back in any story many things such as someone being pregnant could easily be glossed over (in a small town where everyone knows the family) Even the undertaker would feel it was justifiable to not mention things left best buried with the past. I grew up in a small town and that's how we did things. Today things are different with lawsuits and all but in a small close knit area things are still mostly overlooked.
Ladebug
12/26/06 at 04:24 PM
Maria
Autopsies in 1929 were not what they are today. What passed for an autopsy back then would not meet the criteria for one today.There is no mention anywhere on any of the death certificates that a medical examiner examined the bodies. It only mentions the Coroner's name, C.J. Helsabeck. A Coroner cannot perform an autopsy because his is a political appointment. A medical Examiner is a physician and therefore qualified to perform autopsies. A Coroner's job is simply to pronounce that a death has occurred. Charlie's brain was removed and an autopsy performed on it but it was performed not by the coroner but by a pathologist at Johns Hopkins University. I have never seen any evidence that a full body autopsy was performed on Marie or any of the others. I don't believe even the coroner had heard the rumors back then of Marie being pregnant. Therefore he would not have known to look for that. Also, more than one person claimed they heard that Marie was pregnant. Only one person told the author of the book White Christmas Bloody Christmas but we have a man in our documentary who said he heard his mother say Marie was pregnant and that was on the day of the funeral in 1929. It was also told by another man in 1930 who was giving tours of the cabin.The author of the book was by no means the first and only person to reveal that.
12/27/06 at 09:58 AM
ChinbeardXIV
I don't mean to sound like a Doubting Thomas, but we will actually never know for sure if Marie was pregnant or not. It is even less likely if we were to know she was pregnant, that we could know the true identity of the father. It's just all speculation.
In retrospect, I think it's great that we at least have this mystery. Just knowing that there could possibly be more to the story, it makes more and more people interested in the story. This story is a very important one, too, because it opens our eyes to so many things: the perils of gossip, the evils of domestic violence, and the ever-lastmg/never-endmg pain chain that survivors are destined to carry and hand-down generation to generation.
"To err is human; to forgive is divine." —Alexander Pope
12/27/06 at 03:39 PM
jackhammer
I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not, and if it has been, I apologize. But I was just wondering if Arthur was ever a suspect in the case. And I'm not saying that he should have been. It's just that today, when such a crime occurs, it seems like the surviving family member always becomes an early suspect.
I hope that I'm not offending any family members by bringing this up. I don't mean to imply any guilt. Just curious as to what the thinking was at that time.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 03:49 PM
hillbillghosthunter
I want to share a story that a member of the Lawson family shared with me that just touched my heart and made my hair stand up on my neck at the same time. This family member said Authur and his young family lived in the Lawson Cabin for a while and he said one night he was awaken and seen a vision of a lamb standing in front of the fireplace's warm glow.They said Authur always took that vision as a sign from God that his family's death was a sacrifise for a higher power and was meant to be. He took a little comfort in the sign and always held it close to his heart.
HillBilly GhostHunters
www.hillbillyghosthunters.com Life if forever...death is but a dream!
12/27/06 at 04:20 PM
Maria
Hi Jack,
The rumor I have heard floating around about Arthur being a suspect is nothing more than what you are asking.In other words I have heard that question before but I think in all likelihood it was impossible for Arthur to have done it because it is established as fact that he was in Germanton buying shotgun shells when the murders occurred.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 04:27 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
The rumor I have heard floating around about Arthur being a suspect is nothing more than what you are asking.In other words I have heard that question before but I think in all likelihood it was impossiblg for Arthur to havg dong it becausg it is gstabhshgd as fact that hg was in Germanton buying shotgun shells when the murders occurred. Maria
Thanks, Maria. I can't remember if it was in the film, or if it was something that one of the people that was watching it with me said. But someone found it unusual that a store would be open on Christmas Day.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -
Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 05:01 PM
Maria
Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What we were told, and is in the documentary if I'm not mistaken, is that alot of people who owned business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 05:04 PM
ladebug
How awful if in fact Arthur's family had to live in the cabin at all. I thought they gave tours of the house after the tragedy and then the house was torn down?
Ladebug
12/27/06 at 05:06 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What WQ WQTQ told, and is in thg documgntary if I'm not mistakan, is that alot of pgoplg who ownad business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
That makes sense, Maria. My grandfather owned a small country store in central Illinois back in the early teens into the '30s. The store itself was a couple hundred yards from his house. He probably would have been happy to make a sale on a "holiday" as well.
Thanks.
Much of the evil in the world is brought about by people believing they are acting for good and righteous reasons. -Margaret Weis
12/27/06 at 06:31 PM
lindajackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Hi Jack,
Other people have also wondered and questioned about a store being open on Christmas Day. What we were told, and is in the documentary if I'm not mistaken, is that alot of people who owned business such as a hardware store back then also lived with their families in that store. Their living quarters were usually on the upper floor or in the back of their place of buisness and as the lady who told us said, the owner of the store would have been more than happy to let Arthur or any other customer in to buy something they needed even on Christmas day.
That makes sense, Maria. My grandfather owned a small country store in central Illinois back in the early teens into the '30s. The store itself was a couple hundred yards from his house. He probably would have been happy to make a sale on a "holiday" as well. Thanks.
Absolutely. Even today if you know the right people you can get what you need on ANY day.
I am fascinated by this case as are all of you, obviously.
12/27/06 at 06:36 PM
Maria
Welcome Linda to our "second home". ..The Message Forum. Glad you have joined us here. Any questions you
nave just ask away or any comments you want to post please feel free to do so.
MARIA
12/27/06 at 06:51 PM
lindajackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria
Welcome Linda to our "second home"...The Message Forum. Glad you have joined us here. Any
questions you have just ask away or any comments you want to post please feel free to do so.
Maria
Thank you SO much for the gracious welcome and all the details.
I think this is just a haunting case much like the Lizzie Borden affair (I did spend the night in Lizzie's room this past spring; I am Addicted with a capital A). We are still searching for answers after decades.
I applaud your search for answers. a And I do feel you will get some.
12/27/06 at 07:03 PM
jackhammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinbeardXIV
I don't mean to sound like a Doubting Thomas, but we will actually never know for sure if Marieane was pregnant or not. It is even less likely, if we were to knew she wss pregnant, that we could know the true identity of the father, it's just all speculation.
In retrospect, I think it's great that we at least have this mystery. Just knowing that there could possibly be more to the story, it makes more and more people interested in the story. This story is a very important one, too, because it opens our eyes to so many things; the perils of gossip, the evils of domestic violence, and the ever-lasting/never-ending pain chain that survivors are destined to carry and hand-down generation to generation.
Unquote:
This was just shortly after the big stock market crash in 1929, While none of the family (from the picture) looks skinny, none are carrying extra weight, either, Except Marie. Maybe it's just the camera angle or the cut of the dress, but she does have a little bit of extra weight in the middle, (she has no waist) Just my opinion.
12/28/06 at 03:54 PM
Maria
Welcome to our message board Deb and join in anytime you have a question that needs answering. Or just reply to another post or whatever. We're glad you're here.
MARIA
12/28/06 at O8:19 PM
ecalhoun
Just if it ain't been said, it is too long in the past for any sort of autopsy to be performed on the bodies. We spoke to university folks on this subject when we were enquiring about Charlie's brain, and the examination that was done on it at Johns Hopkins University. They said that after that much time, any examination of the remains would be a question for archeology, not forensic science. Also, she wasn't far enough along for there to be any kind of remains on a child, and no DNA test on bones would help with the pregnancy question. It really is lost in history, and it doesn't help at all that we got really solid testimony both that she was and wasn't pregnant...
eric
Break of Dawn Productions "Bringing Light to the Darkest Night"
12/29/06 at 05:42 PM
epdj
Back in those days alot of people were like my grandparents who run a community store. They lived right behind the store and everyone in the community new they would go to the store any time. My grandfather was a carpenter and while he was off working during the day, my grandmother kept it open. Sometimes she would close the store and go to the house to do her work, if someone came and the store was closed they would stand in the rd. below the house and holler, store, store, we want to get in the store. Nights and wk. ends my grandfather kept the store open. The Charlie Lawson Family and the people who lived around them knew which stores in their neighborhood was open or would open any time, if they was closed. The neighborhood store was the gethering place. At night and wk. ends men would play checkers at my grandparents store. In the summer they would pitch Horseshoes. People would stop there and my grandmother would cut them off a slice of bologna and make them a sandwich. They would buy Sardines. She kept crackers and she had a bottle of Vinegar with the top on it and they would take a nail and make a hole in the top so people could put Vinegar on their Sardines. Everything went on at the country stores. The best story I like to tell about the store, was about my uncle who caught a Big Black Crow up on the mountain and brought it back home with him. He lived in the house beside of my granparents. He kept the Crows Feathers Clipped on its wings. That way it could not fly away. That Crow soon learn to talk. What do you think was his favorite thing to say? You guessed it,when my grandmother closed the store and went to the house he would fly up in a tree next to the store and holler, store, store, I want to get in the store. So help me that is the truth. Didn't take long for my grandmother to figure out what was going on. Us grandkids hated that crow. He would sit on the fence behind my uncles and fly down and peck us on the legs,everytime we came out of the house (Back then girls wore dresses). We was afraid of him. Esther Johnson
12/29/06 at 06:19 PM
Cephus
The ? of the store being open on Christmas day I have a copie of Stella Lawson Boles book A Child in the Midst she says her brother Sanders said they went in Mr. Luther McKmsey's store. Sanders was the one who walked to the store with Arthur.
12/29/06 at 07:02 PM
Maria
Hi Cephus,
it's been my understanding for a while now that Arthur was driving the dump truck that wrecked that night in which he was killed. He worked for Marshall Poindexter Watts driving a dump truck. So I tend to believe that since it was his truck that he was the one driving it that night. I also have heard, contrary to the lady's statement in the documentary that the passenger in the truck that night, Blame Nelson WAS injured and injured badly. He would have bled to death if a nurse on her way home from work that night and saw the accident had not stopped and treated Blame by applying pressure to his wounds until an ambulance arrived. She had determined that Arthur was dead so she then turned her attention to helping Blaine This info was told to me by someone who knows Elaine Nelson's wife and she said Blame's wife told her that.
MARIA
12/29/06 at07:4S PM
JiNx
Does anyone know where abouts Arthur's wreck happened? I know it was on HWY 311 going toward Walkertown and that streatch of road is more or less a straight shot with hardly any curves. I was just wondering cause i can look out my front window and see 311. I travel it every day and didnt know that was the road he was killed on till i saw the DVD.
12/30/08 at 09:59 PM
epdj
Another thing I wanted to say about the community stores,back in 1929 the whole community revolved around the community stores. People didn't have away to get to the stores back then like they do now. Most of the time they walked- Especially women and children. They could sale butter and eggs and things from the farm. Also they could charge the things they got- So the neighborhood store was something people had to have back then. Esther Johnson
12/30/06 at 10:09 PM
ladebug
I would guess there were only a couple of places to hang out in those days.grocery or hardware store being main places to meet and get the gossip as well.
Ladebug
12/31/06 at 08:22 PM
epdj
Ladebug, You are right. The store was the place to hang out and hear all the newsp but guess who hung out there. It was not the women. Women stayed at home and did their work and looked after the family. Esther Johnson
12/31/06 at O8:31 PM
ladebug
Oh howw funny! You are right I am sure, just as in those days it was the women running about cooking at festivities and the men were able to sit and chat? Thats what I remember from family gatherings.
Ladebug
12/30/06 at 09:59 PM
epdj
Another thing I wanted to say about the community stores, back in 1929 the whole community revolved around the community stores. People didn't have away to get to the stores back then like they do now. Most of the time they walked. Especially women and children. They could sale butter and eggs and things from the farm. Also they could charge the things they got. So the neighborhood store was something people had to have back then. Esther Johnson
12/30/06 at 10:09 PM
ladebug
I would guess there were only a couple of places to hang out in those days, grocery or hardware store being mam places to meet and get the gossip as well.
Ladebug
12/31/06 at O8:22 PM
epdj
Ladebug, You are right. The store was the place to hang out and hear all the news, but guess who hung out there. It was not the women. Women stayed at home and did their work and looked after the family. Esther Johnson
12/31/06 at O8:31 PM
ladebug
Oh, how funny! You are right I am sure, just as in those days it was the women running about cooking at festivities and the men were able to sit and chat? Thats what I remember from family gatherings.
Ladebug
01/03/07 at 04:13 PM
sissy
I feel sorry for Arthur too. Having to live with this horrible thing for so many years, and as far as crossing the line between public or private Charlie lawson jumped with bath feet ovsr that Ihe when he pulled the trigger of his gun. when he murdered his family he invited us all into there private lives whether we wanted to be there or not.
0l/03/07 at 04:26 PM
Maria
Hi Chinbeard,
Ramblings fine. I do that myself occasionally. The murders of the Lawson family went public long before I was born. There is no way to keep any portion of it private anymore. And Charlie Lawson was accused of getting Marie pregnant even before the murders. When something as horrendous as this happens, people are going to want to know "WHY". And who knows, by continuing to dig into it someone may actually find out with proof that he didnt do that to his daughter. Isnt it equally important to clear a man's name when a charge like that is leveled at him. I've often prayed to God that if Charlie Lawson didn't do to his daughter the horrible thing he's been accused of, then help me find something to clear his name. He would deserve that. And what do we know about Arthur? Precious little. I think that it's usually proven that domestic violence is never a one time thing and that usually everyone in the immediate family knows about it even if they dont admit it. What did Arthur know? And last but not least, when dealing with domestic violence it seems best to me to find the thing that caused it to escalate into seven murders and one suicide. I definitely agree with Sissy on this that Charlie Lawson pushed it into the public eye. And I agree with hackhammer's comments on it. They both made great points on it. But I'm also glad you posted your feelings about this because it shows that you are interested in it but not purely from a morbid stand point. I like that...your compassion for Arthur.
MARIA
01/03/07 at 05:41 PM
ladebug
Now Chirnbeard, I am a bit worried about you today! We will send you some positive vibes...I think it is all very sad ndeed and I so feel for Arthur and what he had to live with. Perhaps I would mostly like to speak to Arthur and ask what his thoughts were. Here is the crux of the problem all around. SECRETS in a family and community where people may have known but didnt want to get involved with a man and his problems? If we do not talk we do not solve problems and pretending they are not there for some is easiest.
My thoughts for today.
Ladebug
01/04/07at 09:53 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Sorry all...yesterday was the product of over-thinking, I'm sure.
I dont want to overuse the forum's space, so if anyone has Questions about my thoughts and/or opinions, reel free to send me an e-mail at Jonestownl4@yahoo.com.
Keep posting!!!
CBX1V
01/04/07 at 10:01 AM
ladebug
Hey,we want to hear your postings! Besides we would miss your input if you are not making comments and
keeping us going here. I think most of us consider all our family of posters "Friends Now"
Ladebug
01/04/07 at 10:03 AM
Maria
HI,
You aren't over using the space here Kenny. This is where I come to share my thoughts, beliefs, interpretations, tips, answers, dues, and new info etc. Not in peoples e-mail boxes. If we go that way then only you and the person
who e-mailed you benefit from your thoughts and ideas. No one else does. So when you dan't find me in your e-mail box it doesn't mean I'm not interested in what you have to say or what you think, it just means that I want all of us in here to benefit from it. I hope you will comeback in here again because like ladebug, I would rniss you alot.
MARIA
01/04/D7 at 10:13 AM
ChinbeardXIV
I think I may have used the wrong words or something to convey my last thought. I'm all about sharing my thoughts and ideas in our forum-I just wanted everyone to know that if they want more in-depth, detailed discussions, mv e-mail is available.
For instance, I'm all over the "innocent until proven guilty" thing today. If there's nothing but word-of-mouth passed from generation to generation by third-party people, then I'm not sold on Marie even being pregnant at all. If she weren't pregnant and the whole incestuous thing was bitter salt poured into the wound, then suddenly, ol Charlie becomes just an old farmer who lost his mind (due to injury, etc.) and killed his family. You know?
See? Rambling...
01/04/07 at 10:15 AM
ChinbeardXIV
Oh..and I do consider all you guys as friends in our little forum family, we're all here for the same reason, I believe. Thank you all for providing us with this little spot to share and exchange ideas..
01/04/07 at 10:29 AM
ladebug
We may never know the reason but isn't it interesting to research the clues and fetter out the new ones? I will tell you a story from my own experience. My mom was raised by her Grandparents. All my life I heard moms sad story how her father left and her mom dropped her at Grandmas. As an adult I started doing genealogy on the family and sent away for her moms divorce decree. It said my mom was maybe 18 months old when this divorce happened! (hence she had lived with her Mom & Dad until then) It also said it was a physically abusive situation and that was why she went to her grand parents to live while her mom left the state. Wow, my mom lived all her life thinking she was not wanted by her parents and that was not the whole story. That's why I think digging is a good thing to heal wounds for many.
Ladebug
01/04/07 at 10:31 AM
Maria
Okay. ..does this mean we should start calling you THE RAMBLING MAN instead of Chinbeard? The way I see it is this...just because all we have is third party statements that Marie was pregnant, doesn't mean she wasn't. Doesn't mean she was either. But it doesn't mean she wasn't. When more than one relative who knew her at that time comes out and says she was such and such a thing, and they have nothing to gain but everything to lose by revealing that info. I tend to stand up and listen and question and wonder and yes, even think...well my goodness, perhaps they are telling the truth. That they know more about this than I knew. That's all. One more thing here while we are at it...could we start anther thread instead of adding to this one which is now 3 pages long. This thread is about Arthur. Maybe vie could da a thread that says Marie.